Producing for playing live

[omm-0910]

I have a few questions for those of you who play live. Not DJing, but live song production ala FlyLo, Dabrye, erm Tim Exile... Basically taking a laptop/drumpad/midi controllers etc. on stage and bashing buttons. Probably more a 'glitch hop' type ting than dubstep, but anyway:

Are you conscious of the fact that it will be played live during the songwriting process and does it affect the way you produce in the studio? Do you produce material specifically for playing live, and if not how do you go about preparing a song for playing live? Does it make more sense to write everything in the same tempo/key?

I'm getting tired of consistently failing to finish songs, and was thinking of switching my production technique to creating a library of loops and sounds that I could mash up and remix in a live context. Maybe even using this library to create songs 'live' at home.

Thoughts/suggestions/links appreciated

[symmetricalsounds]

well i started writing my live set in ableton and it was all new material but quickly realised that to make the whole thing new material will take a long time so now looking to bring in tracks i've already done and bring them into the set. still not decided whether this is going to be with those tracks in their component parts, or taking the finished track and splitting it tom cosm style.

could also take stems from finished track and then split them, so still have control over the component parts of the track. one of the biggest things to think about is intros, because if you include that whole 32bar intro from a track that you drop in the middle of the set you're going to lose momentum. i have written everything in the same tempo, but not the same key i don't think key needs to matter that much as you can use a drum only section to break it up doesn't clash.

creating the library of bits to jam out with is a good idea. there's so many ways you can set up your controller, for my live set on the bass channel i bounced it all down to audio apart from one bassline which i kept in midi because i wanted the filter cutoff and resonance assigned to the controller. on the audio only bass channel i had a step-sequencer on there and had the number of steps assigned to a fader which meant one bass sound could be manipulated to sound different as the set progresses. got a beat repeat on the master channel with pitch decay assigned, flicking that on can be a good way to traverse sections in the set.

i've found it slow going but ultimately is going to be really worth it.

[silkpantsman]

Producing live is just a level im not sure ill ever be at especially when i want the music i make to have thought and labor gone into it. However i do make sure that the tracks i make have lovely labled stems...save all the synthy presets and keep the midi of my drum tracks. These then get loaded into my live set and ill dj the arrangement and cut it up with new 1 hits beatrepeat and other dj effects add new effects to stems change the the drums midi (well tinker with it to change the groove really) and hopefully generate a new different loop altho calling it different is being generous, its just a little evolution on the track ive made...hit it up with a new baseline and try bring in the key for my next track...then mix the new loop with the incoming new track. Altho its kinda my goal to make music on the fly its not really my highest priority making excellent music is!! Id love to hear from some1 offering tips etc for producing on the fly tho!!

[Sharmaji]

Are you conscious of the fact that it will be played live during the songwriting process and does it affect the way you produce in the studio?

yes, and absolutely. In the songwriting process we figure out what we can play live, what we can edit/glitch/destroy live, etc, etc. Once a track is done, we'll bounce out stems of various sections and cut things up to be loaded into ableton to be launched either via our drum triggers or controllers.

Do you produce material specifically for playing live, and if not how do you go about preparing a song for playing live?

similar to above. we track w/ some of the triggering setups we have live, so that we at least know the instruments we'll be using-- the actual parts may change in a live setting. Otherwise, i think moving from playing your own tunes in a DJ set, to playing your own tunes in an ableton set, to deconstructing them and re-constructing them live is a good way to go. The hurdles to cross and cool things you can accomplish will become a lot clearer that way.

Does it make more sense to write everything in the same tempo/key?

nah. everything's adjustable in ableton. We have a remix that's coming out soon that's in 125-- we play it at 140 live and no one's the wiser.The Complex Pro algorithm is the savior of the day.

I'm getting tired of consistently failing to finish songs, and was thinking of switching my production technique to creating a library of loops and sounds that I could mash up and remix in a live context. Maybe even using this library to create songs 'live' at home.

TBH, personally, the library of loops thing just never worked for me. When it's outside of the context of a song, it just feels like noodly DJ stuff to me. but that's just me-- other folks get way into it and it certainly works for them.

[hovatron]

I try to consider my recorded output and live output as two seperate entities.

I export loops from the drums and maybe a few of the extra sounds and synth things going on, then export some midi loops from the main lines.

bases of songs are sent via midi from ableton to a Korg MS-20 and a TB-303 clone. these provide a sort of backbone to the track when playing live. I can also transpose lines on the korg ms-20 by using the keyboard, and create interesting harmonies between the different synth lines going on. I'm trying to work a few stompbox pedals into the mix too... just got an electro-harmonix Memory Boy analog delay pedal. super rad in a live context.

It's fun to have synthesizers with a lot of hands-on control for tweaking and stuff. The real fun part of the set comes in with the modular synthesizer.
I have a full roadcase of euro-rack modules, not unlike this one:


However my choice of modules is completely different and a bit more straight-forward synth architecture. AAAANNNNDDD I ahve one of these in it:

http://www.analoguehaven.com/doepfer/a155/a155.jpg

So by clocking the synth to MIDI, I have a real-time CV sequencer for the filter and pitch of the modular synth, so while the MS-20 and 303 handle a bit more controlled renditions of my tracks, I improvise all the leads on this 8-step sequencer (the top row of switches being gates for when notes are played, and the top row of knobs controlling the pitch)... it allows for endless improv and crazy fun. I've had a few moments where my sets had to last up to 20 minutes longer than expected and I could just play around with drum loops and keep going with the sequencer.

....that's that.
Live electronic music doesn't have to be laptop kareoke

[deadly_habit]

i keep trying to come up with the rig to do it
just can never settle on one right setup though

[symmetricalsounds]

Live electronic music doesn't have to be laptop kareoke

just cos you got lots of hardware synths doesn't necessarily make you better than someone just using a laptop and ableton. calling it laptop karaoke is pretty wrong i reckon and ignores the amount of work and effort that can go into a set like that.

[JacquesGreene]

live sets are awesomememee
however shouldn't be forced

a good dj set is better than a bad live

[hovatron]

Live electronic music doesn't have to be laptop kareoke

just cos you got lots of hardware synths doesn't necessarily make you better than someone just using a laptop and ableton. calling it laptop karaoke is pretty wrong i reckon and ignores the amount of work and effort that can go into a set like that.

of course not
and i wasn,t saying hardsynths or death...
I meant I've stood behind people playing high-profile live booking and kind of just stare at their screen while in Arrangement View in ableton...

whereas an act like LazerSword, which is laptop only, with a dj mixer between the two of them, is live as fuck and completely insane.


sorry i wasn't any clearer!

[symmetricalsounds]

i fully agree with you on the people that just press play on arrangement mode, they can fuck right off if they say they're playing live. there was a massive discussion about this on another thread, i don't think there is anything wrong with having a full set you've created then press play on but billing it as live is wrong. the consensus on that other thread was that "producer set" would be a good description for these people who bring a set and press play.

[nowaysj]

In all honesty I think it is harder to produce for the live context than to just produce a stereo master. If you are having trouble producing just a stereo master, I think you will have even more trouble producing for the live context.

With that said, bringing more live playing and manipulation into your process is a great idea.

[hovatron]

yeh exactly,

I guess that's what I was getting at when saying live set vs. laptop kareoke.
cause don't get me wrong, I was playing a laptop-only live set for about 3 years before kind of wanting to do something else.
and yeah, I don't think hardware is any better (however that shit BANGS in the club) like i said, lazer sword blow me away every single time

but as jacques said, sometimes I would much rather hear a DJ set

[nowaysj]

i keep trying to come up with the rig to do it
just can never settle on one right setup though

Live, apc 40, pakkontrol. QED

[symmetricalsounds]

yeh exactly,

I guess that's what I was getting at when saying live set vs. laptop kareoke.
cause don't get me wrong, I was playing a laptop-only live set for about 3 years before kind of wanting to do something else.
and yeah, I don't think hardware is any better (however that shit BANGS in the club) like i said, lazer sword blow me away every single time

but as jacques said, sometimes I would much rather hear a DJ set

i mean i'd love to have loads of fancy hardware, although wouldn't be too up for dragging around a modular synth on road.

[hovatron]

that's why my modular is a roadcase!


I'm going to start leaving the MS-20 at home though, that thing is big and hard to bring out.

[hovatron]

on the real though, producing for live and using a laptop:

keep your parts for the live set simple so you can manipulate and adventure in what you have.
a super simple pad type controller (like the trigger finger or MPD stuff) is great, and try to put a Pioneer DJM-800 on your technical rider and use the onboard effects. tap button, sweeps, everything.

[Sharmaji]

on the real though, producing for live and using a laptop:

keep your parts for the live set simple so you can manipulate and adventure in what you have.
a super simple pad type controller (like the trigger finger or MPD stuff) is great, and try to put a Pioneer DJM-800 on your technical rider and use the onboard effects. tap button, sweeps, everything.

even better: spec an a&h so that you can have teh extra headroom, and do all your FX in live--- custom -tailored to what you do.

[omm-0910]

I need to get on teh internets more often. Awesome replies everyone, lots to think about...