Multiband Compression in Fruity Loops (for sound design) (?)

[killahbeez]

Hey all...

(**TL;DR .. can you think of any methods of splitting a sound into frequency bands (with the ability to FX individually), that doesn't alter the sound? That is.. a series where the output would sound literally identical to the input, assuming no FX were placed on any bands.)

FL noob here who could use some clarification... hope you all don't mind me starting a new thread for this...

At first I was simply using EQ to split my lows, mediums, and highs - with hopes of splitting up, and applying FX to the various bands - but noticed that things just "didn't sound right" with the resulting sound after I merged all the channels back together. I looked around the forum a bit, and I saw ppl explaining why this method was BAD (I think it was Basic A who explained "phase cancellation" - which made a lot of sense). The best method of achieving this is apparently through multiband compression -- which is what I'm trying to set up now.

Take a look at this representation of my current "setup":

--> FL Multiband Compressor is used (default settings, with only frequencies changed) Presets are saved and loaded into channels with respective bands solo'ed.


...the problem is - I'm getting that same feeling I had before, when I was using basic EQ to split frequencies - the result just "doesn't sound right".

I say this because a sound routed through this series sounds distinctly different from the same sound routed straight to master. Even running a sound through a single multiband compressor (at default settings) seems to change the sound slightly. Is there some optimal compressor settings, or some other method, where the output of this "series" would sound more similar to the input?

Hopefully you guys can break this down for me, or shed some insight....
...is this even possible? or am I being too picky? All whining aside, and for the record - multiband compression definitely yields better results than EQ'ing in this respect

[therook]

http://www.mediafire.com/?oz8nzias5oyruo7

Here are the presets that I use (Thanks to basic a)

I don't notice any sound difference

[killahbeez]

good looking out on the quick response.... I'll DL that, load it up, experiment, and analyze....

For the record - can you see anything wrong, theoretically, with my setup?

And also, for the record - if you place a multiband compressor on your master, for example - and switch it on, off, on, off.... do you not notice a subtle difference in your sound?! I do. my settings must be off...

[therook]

good looking out on the quick response.... I'll DL that, load it up, experiment, and analyze....

For the record - can you see anything wrong, theoretically, with my setup?

And also, for the record - if you place a multiband compressor on your master, for example - and switch it on, off, on, off.... do you not notice a subtle difference in your sound?! I do. my settings must be off...

1. I have no idea if your's is right...I'm still a noob myself. I just happened to get some presets that worked for me.

2. As far as my setup goes, I have a "In" channel where it outputs to a low mid and high channel. Then the low/mid/high channels route to an "out" channel that goes straight to the master. It sounds around 98% identical as far as my ears can tell.

[Basic A]

The preset above, bear in mind, will raise the gain about 2db, so turn it down to compensate, other then that, its surgical

[killahbeez]

The preset above, bear in mind, will raise the gain about 2db, so turn it down to compensate, other then that, its surgical

ya I noticed that. But even with compensating for gain - I've still got to say I still notice a slight difference in the sound when I switch the compressors ON/OFF.

Like I said though - this is much better than EQ'ing for splitting frequencies, and I'm ever thankful for the nod in the right direction...

It may have been just a fluke but I've already made some "disgusting" Skrillex'ish growwlls.


Basic A -- could you look at my OP and let me know if you think my setup should work, in theory (for 9 frequency bands)? I could also upload a flp or something if anyone wanted to look around....
...should I just cut this crap and find a compressor with more frequency bands?!

[Wave Mekanix]

Can't tell what you are looking to do here. I think im missing part of the conversation. But If i wanted to have a sound that went through a multiband compressor be able to start at the sound I had going, I would set up two different effect channels, whatever fl calls them, with the exact same compressors set up. One track the settings all the way up and not processing anything, but on the whole time, and the other channel with the settings you want. Automate the send/effect channel volumes. If you cant send to two effect chains in fruity loops, I'd duplicate the original track.

[killahbeez]

Sorry if I haven't been clear. It was pretty late when I posted....

Essentially, I'm interested in resampling - and I'm wondering 2 things:


1) whether or not it is feasible to use sends, and multiple instances of a 3-band multiband compressor (like the one in FL) to act effectively as a 9-band (or more?) multiband compressor.

Consider a simple 3-band separation [ LOW, MED, HIGH]. ..
This would involve loading a SINGLE multiband compressor preset into the FX chain of your 3 (low, med, and high) channels - and then solo'ing one band in each channel. That is - solo the low, med, and high "bands" (from within the compressor) on their respective low, med, and high frequency channels (in the mixer).
...Follow?

....ALL I'M SUGGESTING, and I'm sure others have considered it, is to repeat this process on the resulting low, med, and high bands so that each one is split 3-bands further...resulting in 9 bands.
This involves 4 presets -- an initial, LOW/MED/HI preset (as per usual), then an additional preset for each of the LOW, MED, and HI bands....

Excuse the crappy artistic rendition. Hopefully the message is clear though.

(if this system is full of FAIL - then I wonder if should I look for another multiband compressor?
I've heard of up to 5-band compressors. Is there anything higher? Unlimited perhaps? would be sick.)


and


2) An observation: I've noticed that simply running a sound/input through a single multiband compressor on the master alters the sound somewhat.
I'd rate the sound around 95% similar to the unprocessed sound and this figure changes for better or worse when I fiddle with the compressor settings of each band (threshold, ratio, att, rel, etc.). ...So I'm wondering if there is some sort of optimal compressor settings to set as default on my presets - which would make the sound more "unaffected"? I'm concerned that this effect may be amplified in a series like the one I've outlined above - where multiple instances of compression are used...
(If at all possible - I'd like to split the frequencies without so much "compression" of the sound..)

[Sinisterbeats]

Sorry if I haven't been clear. It was pretty late when I posted....

Essentially, I'm interested in resampling - and I'm wondering 2 things:

you realise resampling and frequency splitting are different things right?
can you not just get a multiband compressor with multiple outputs? Im a Reason user so not so familiar with what vsts are availiable.

[killahbeez]

^^ Ya. . . I frequency split, FX, resample - split, fx, resample.

...I'm wondering the same thing ... a 9+ band compressor would be sweet.

[Sinisterbeats]

have a look on kvr and see if you can find one that suits your needs.

[Basic A]

Stop thinking multiband compressor, startthinking linear phase eq...

I use fl's becaus eI rarely need to split into more then 3, mostly just for midrange saturation n ect. But, the multiband compressor is just a convenient place to tell people to look for a linear phase EQ within thier DAW, you can buy/find decent linear phase EQ's as standalone plugins for splitting lots of bands out if you want, just be sure todo some reading on how to set the bands, different plugins work different ways.

Glancing over your screenshot though, that should wok, you took your time with that one ... Are you sure your setting the compressor section up right? You dont actually want the compressors active, turn the cutoff's to 0db and the ratios to 1:0, set attack decays to short-ish almost off.

[killahbeez]

ahh I do remember you saying somehting about that...

I guess its time for me to start the daunting process of reading... any good articles u can recommend?

thanks again for the quick responses nod in the direction, lads...

edit: one of first results on google... nice and elementary, too...
http://emusician.com/tutorials/square-one-phase/

[blu2]

idk if this will help but...
what I do is I assign a track in my mixer to a mid range bass for example
I output the track to two other tracks (send1 and send2).
the first plug-ins on send1 & send2 are equalizers.
on send1 I cut all the hi end out and send2 I cut the lo end
then filter, mix, compress etc
I don't do this often but its helped me with some of the sounds I make
and gives you a little more control on editing your sounds in different frequencies

I suppose the multi-band compressor works alright for this
but I try and avoid the multi-band compressor as much as possible
if you want a quick master, maximus does a decent job
and good proper mixing should help clean your mixer from too much compressor/limiter clutter


yay first post!