Let's talk progression...

[kuntmuffin]

As a community.

I'm going to be upfront and honest about something. Five months ago, I heard dubstep for the first time. It was the ever popular "August" mix on UKF's channel. I instantly fell in love - and like many others, thought that I could just jump into it and start busting out songs instantly. I soon realized the hard way, that it wasn't going to be that easy. I've since then invested 8+ hours a day doing nothing but sound design and automation experiments... but still no songs. I have an immense level of respect, and fascination for this genre and its cutting edge artists, and ever since I found this music, my life has been amazing, and my ears love me more than ever.

Now that that is over with, lets get on with this.

I'm just curious to know what people that cross between different genres of music think about the hostility in this one when it comes to making music.

For example, I used to be in grindcore/hardcore/metalcore bands growing up. I was in 2 very popular ones. I loved how growing up there was a plethora of information on how to get you're amp sounding beefy as fuck, and crispy as shit. I was able to watch videos of other heavy metal superstars teaching me how to do technique's they developed. Innovation and advanced ways of creating more interesting music is openly shared because if you think about it, you can be handed the best guitar rig in the world, with the best effects racks, the best head, the best cab, and the best guitar ever... but unless you possess real technique, and musical talent - it will sound like booty.

So why is it that over here in dubstep land, whenever someone wants to know how to make a specific sound, or how to sound like ______, everyone rips their heads off? Why does everyone get sent to the "Creating The Everpopular Distorted, Midrange Bass" thread that possess very little information about making these sounds. Don't get me wrong, if you sift through the pages and pages and pages of people talking shit, you'll occasionally find a little clue as to how it is done.

Do you think the first person that ever did a pinch harmonic/dive bomb on a guitar was like "Oh shit, I'm not telling anyone how to do this"?

A better way to do it, is how the second post on this page is - http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=140

He straight up let you into his mind with a picture of his massive set up, but left out the parts that make it his own unique creation. Which brings me back to the musical talent aspect of this.

If there was a way to have the "Swagga" sounds all as presets in 1 VST, you would still have to be a musician to pull it off and make it not sound like anything else. Look at metal, everyones guitars sound the exact same. Again... the exact... same. Everyone uses double bass, everyone uses 808 drops on break downs... it's a formula.

I believe that the opportunity to be a pioneer in this genre is long gone, guys like Geeneus, Benga, D1, Skream, Hatcha, Digital Mystikz... dare I say... Datsik, Excision, Flux, Doctor P... they are the ones that will forever be remembered (along with many others of course) as the ones that did it first.

So why not progress? Why not dive deep into the advanced and more technical way of doing things around here...? Why not take this genre back from the people who have destroyed it, and take it to the next level?

[kuntmuffin]

Half hour, 30 views, no replies... is this like... taboo or something?

[HighBot]

I believe that the opportunity to be a pioneer in this genre is long gone, guys like Geeneus, Benga, D1, Skream, Hatcha, Digital Mystikz... dare I say... Datsik, Excision, Flux, Doctor P... they are the ones that will forever be remembered (along with many others of course) as the ones that did it first.

There is ALWAYS the opportunity to be original in any type of music you make. It's not going to happen if you spend all of your time trying to recreate those peoples sounds that you mentioned above.

....So why not progress?

The definition of progression is moving forward into something new/different, not backwards into something done.

Those threads you mentioned honestly do contain all you need to know in order to formulate your own sound. It's simple, just experiment with everything.

[-[2]DAY_-]

i don't really get it or have anything to add...

Synthesis and beats is different than guitar playing and the like. Production is different than musicianship in and out of bands. Analogies often work wonders in conveying ideas but it just isn't grabbing me here

[Sharmaji]

knowing exactly, down to the T, how to re-create what's happened before you isn't progression.

[-[2]DAY_-]

sharing tips on getting crunch out of your mesa dual rectifier is comparable to sharing tips on how to get a growling reese out of massive; however, the axe men still gotta hone their chops whereas the electronic cats need to hold a midi key down or draw em in. The chops is the modulation.

[paravrais]

So many things wrong with your post I don't even know where to begin. Firstly we don't bite peoples heads off because we're all like "NO, THESE IDEAS ARE MINE AND NOT FOR SHARING!" it's because the only way people are gonna realistically learn how to make those sounds is by figuring it out themselves. That's what Datsik did and if you want to be just as successful that's what you have to do to. Also we get asked the same questions several times a day, this isn't a fucking call center, it's a forum for producers. It's not titled "Newbie town! Ask the more experienced producers to make your tunes for you so you don't have to! " All the advice you need to make wobbly midrange filth is in the thread you slated and any more instruction would be impossible to correctly give without actually being in the same room as someone.

Now for your next rediculous idea...all guitars sound the same??? Seriously??? Really?? No Seriously?? Did you really just say that??? So a massive part of Hendrix's (cliched example but hey it still works) appeal had nothing to do with the unique sound he got out of his guitar? Or Floyd?? Or Radiohead? Or the Chilli Peppers? Or Andy McKee? Or Rage Against The Machine? Or early Reggae music? etc etc

Also Brostep is like 87% sound design, so yeah, if you had patches that sounded EXACTLY like Datsiks you could make songs exactly like his because that's all they're about. You don't need to be a musical genius to write three notes and one chord...

Finally, I actually find it pretty insulting that you say when you were learning metal there was a wealth of information about how to get the best sound and then imply that that is lacking here?? Have you any idea what lengths members of this forum have gone to to try and cater for people who are new to the scene. Nobody is getting paid for this, nobody gets anything out of it and still people are constantly answering questions every day on here and there is a MASSIVE amount of knowledge and tips in the production bible. If you had the patience to actually give it a proper read like I did when I first found this site then maybe you would never have seen the need to create this thread and would have realised just how much help the good people of this forum have given you.

[paravrais]

knowing exactly, down to the T, how to re-create what's happened before you isn't progression.

Lots of +1 for this too.

[-[2]DAY_-]

lmfao i can't believe you sig'd ScourgeDubstep and you picked the best quote although there were some keepers. Oh man.

[legend4ry]

Well, do it then?

There are loads of producers on this board making unique sounds and slowly getting their name out there.

Also - to come back to what someone else said, I also find it damn fucking insulting you say this scene doesn't give anything back? Loads of us have put insane amounts of time and effort in things from sound design, music theory, business knowledge and even down to stupid shit like "how to google yourself properly" .......If you're just going to come here and moan and be a typical metal-head.. Fark orf.

Lets not forget also, the two main significant things between.... being in a metal band and being a EDM producer.

Metal - you have to go into a studio (or haev your own home studio).. have X amount of people (unless you're one talented mother effer) and record your song, upload it to soundcloud/myspace ??? profit.

EDM - Load up your DAW and play around till its done.. upload it to soundcloud, ??? profit.

Both can take the same amount of time but ones deffo MUCH easier to get done than the other, i'll let you decide which is that.

[hutyluty]

knowing exactly, down to the T, how to re-create what's happened before you isn't progression.

Yeah sharmaji, although this is off topic, but as there isnt really a topic, there was a tune of yours about 2 years ago with like a bollywood sample? Anyway it qwas absolutley massive, do you have a name and release details?

[bigfootspartan]

Aww man. I came here thinking there was going to be an open discussion about making electronic music in an organic way, sorta like the classic ISIS/Pelican/Neurosis sort of way. Chord progression kinda stuff. I read halfway through the post then realized this was another 'you say it's easy to make these sounds but then you don't tell me how and i just want to be as famous as Skrillex bruv grrrr (fill in angsty whine)....'

To explain it how I see it, none of us can make a perfect Datsik/Excision/Skrillex/Torqux bass. They're the ones that make them. If you use the old search function it'll be pretty straightforward to figure out the technics and then apply them to your own sound. No ones giving out exact patches because we don't have them, and for most of us, we aren't really interested in copying them. I am interested however in making my drums sound wet, wooden or metallic. Or making my bass sound growly. That's all covered in past threads.

I guess what im really trying to say is, a step by step, how to make Skrillex bass/here's a patch isn't going to do you any good at all. The technics based around it will, but if you can't understand how it's made (and you wont unless you do some trial and error) you surely won't know how to use it to make the song in your head. Watch some tutorials there's a tn of them, then learn what's happening in each step, then use those technics to figure out how you can make the sound you want to.

[Sirius]

start from your heart & let the influences inside help you create your music.
feel the riddim & let it take you were it will!

when music progresses... it doesn't take 1 man to do it,
its the nature around you, everything you have heard, all that you feel!

OR... you can be oppressed all your life & make the greatest music ever!
reggae, dub, jazz, blues, jungle, dubstep.... all were made or influenced by oppressed people!

Evolution devolves itself first!

!!chea

[kuntmuffin]

Every response to this thread is exactly what I'm talking about -

@Sharmaji - I never said I was trying recreate anything.

@-[2]DAY_- You are absolutely correct - but the midi notes are part of the musicianship.

@paravirus - Did you even read the post? I was talking about metal guitars, of course metal isn't going to sound like Hendrix, you're comparing to many different types of genres, and I find it insulting that you run off with one thing I said into a temper tantrum of irrelevance. And I agree the production bible is great, but not advanced.

@legend4ry - I never said the scene doesn't give anything back - every thread is chopped full of people talking shit.

@sirius - i dont feel oppressed - and i respect/agree with a lot of your reply.

I think you guys need (with the exception of 2DAY) to re-read the post. This is a discussion, not "Lets attack the OP with our angst"

And this isn't about being a newbie producer needing to know about how to make excision sounds, this about innovation and progression in a genre being overrun by everyone wanting to sound like the pioneers.

With the exception on ambient and dark dubstep, I'd say we're in a vicious circle of shit cookie cutters.

[kuntmuffin]

And quick side note - fuck Skrillex.

Also - I don't want to be Datsik - it was an EXAMPLE

[HighBot]

Every response to this thread is exactly what I'm talking about -

@Sharmaji - I never said I was trying recreate anything.

@-[2]DAY_- You are absolutely correct - but the midi notes are part of the musicianship.

@paravirus - Did you even read the post? I was talking about metal guitars, of course metal isn't going to sound like Hendrix, you're comparing to many different types of genres, and I find it insulting that you run off with one thing I said into a temper tantrum of irrelevance. And I agree the production bible is great, but not advanced.

@legend4ry - I never said the scene doesn't give anything back - every thread is chopped full of people talking shit.

I think you guys need (with the exception of 2DAY) to re-read the post.

And this isn't about being a newbie producer needing to know about how to make excision sounds, this about innovation and progression in a genre being overrun by everyone wanting to sound like the pioneers.

With the exception on ambient and dark dubstep, I'd say we're in a vicious circle of shit cookie cutters.

I believe that the opportunity to be a pioneer in this genre is long gone, guys like Geeneus, Benga, D1, Skream, Hatcha, Digital Mystikz... dare I say... Datsik, Excision, Flux, Doctor P... they are the ones that will forever be remembered (along with many others of course) as the ones that did it first.

There is ALWAYS the opportunity to be original in any type of music you make. It's not going to happen if you spend all of your time trying to recreate those peoples sounds that you mentioned above.

....So why not progress?

The definition of progression is moving forward into something new/different, not backwards into something done.

Those threads you mentioned honestly do contain all you need to know in order to formulate your own sound. It's simple, just experiment with everything.

[jsills]

.... kuntmuffin....



if i was you id sample my distorted guitar into kontact or alchemy and mangle that shit and make some shit no one has heard before on planet earth.....


i am personally offended that people covet these artists specific production techniques. it SHOULD be a secret for fucks sake.

[X_S_]

I'll try and offer you a different perspective.
As far as sharing how you do things programming wise, it's a touchy subject, amongst a lot of "producer " led genres. This is different from Rock because a distinctive style, sounds, equipment tricks, etc really identify a producer. I'll give a common example. This is electronic though, not dubstep specific. It seems Everyone who listens to aphex twin or squarepusher at one point wants to know the specifics on how they do it. After years, some tricks eventually cAme to light. But when they were asked in interviews how they get their sound, do you think they said " yeah I use a $6,000 eventide ultra harmonizer to run breaks through, then I load them in so and so program, then I do this , etc etc". No they really didn't. Do you think madlib or dilla broke down in their interviews exactly how they chopped, sequenced, played basslines, etc? Nope. Maybe this is something stemming from hip hop. The sentiment is heavy there. Djs historically didn't share the records they for their breaks from for example. Get your own shit, would be a common response. Maybe you can see what I'm getting at? People spend time honing their basses, drums, mixing skills etc for a loong time. Breaking their brain, making personal sacrifices, for the music. Not to mention working for free, sometimes for years, getting your Name to bubble. And some kid comes online and demands to know how all this is done, typed out in ront if them.

As far as progress, it's really a speculative topic. Music mutates Over time. It's a bit silly to say that no ground breaking work can be done. That would be like the first Rock artists saying nothing good will come after them, then comes the beatles, 40 years later radiohead. In 40 more years another band will come out smashing. You know?

Taking it tO the next level, that's what WE need to do, not talk about how someone else will and wait for it. I will say this, and I had a discussion with someone at the dubstep night last week with 12th planet. This came up after every track he played sounded the same, besides a rustie tune. There's not many great dubstep albums, and the Lps that are worthwhile are not getting promotion. I know the djs are the taste makers in this game and singles are it. It's about the big 12". But in the scope of things, it's limiting. I'm my opinion we need to have 5 or 10 great full lengths to suggest to ignorant listeners. There's a few odd flashes of light, but so far, i say there's A LOT of room for groundbreaking producers to fill.

[jsills]

^ good post. this is what i was getting at...much more eloquently put.

[legend4ry]

With the exception on ambient and dark dubstep, I'd say we're in a vicious circle of shit cookie cutters.

Well then suit your music to your style... Theres hardly ANYONE making those "peaceful" type of dubstep tracks what you hear in the middle of a metal album - where it has some nice riffs playing over a atmospheric, tightly made drum beat.. I can only think of 3 tracks what do that and one is my self...Theres one avenue you could explore yourself, being a guitarist you have a whole heap of innovation you could achieve, instead of bitchin' about other people not innovating..

Here are those tracks..

Soundcloud

Soundcloud




Personally, I adore this sound and wish I had more guitar skills to do something like this on a day-to-day basis and its a sound whats hardly EVER ventured...


ANYWAYS TO MY POINT : My point is simple - if you don't like something, do your best to change it. I personally don't try and make the cookie-cutter type of sound and try and innovate my own sound all the time.. I think .. "I am in a rutt, I keep making the same track but it just sounds different" so I purposely switch it up, as well as improving as a musician on the whole, I'm sure you're unlike me musically tuned enough to not have your ideas held back through not having playing skill so make YOUR sound, don't care about the scene, the scene is split up into some many little pods of producers each doing their own thing its hardly a genre anymore, just a name so record shops can put it in a basket some where so in that sense - dubstep is getting to how it used to be.. A sandbox for music producers around the bpm of 135-145 with loads of low end sub bass.

Instead of caring about what other people are doing, do your own thing and people will respect you and slowly you'll stop being angry and realise that the only people who care about the genre as a whole are those who sit there and google dubstep and keep hearing the same tunes over and over again.