Need some help with mix levels

[therook]

Hey Guys,

I've read through the gain structure thread and I understand the fundamentals of that but I'm still having problems with my mixdowns. The problem I'm having is that the drums are overpowering the lead line and the sub is eating the rest of the energy. The result is the mix sounding muddy and too boomy.

As far as eq'ing goes I always hipass everything except bass and using RN freq inspector to get rid of any peaks.

My question is what are some good guidelines to follow as to how loud each element should be?

My process is as followed

• -10db Snare & Clap
  -15db Kick
  -20 for hats
  -15db for bass
  -15db for sub
  -20db everything else

Am I doing something wrong? Should I cut frequencies where the lead dominates in other elements?

Thanks for the help

[Brisance]

The thing you are doing wrong is going by numbers and graphs instead of trusting your ears.

[macc]

The thing you are doing wrong is going by numbers and graphs instead of trusting your ears.

The numbers you are referring to are peak levels, which have no real relation to the perceived loudness of a sound. Two sounds can have the same peak level but sound very different in terms of loudness.

You're doing the right thing by leaving plenty of room - you're not doing the right thing by assigning rigid numbers to stuff. If the drums and bass are too loud, turn them down. Simple as that!

[MikkiFunk]

Stop mixing by numbers and use your ears. You're mixing not doing mathematics.

My process is as followed
-10db Snare & Clap
-15db Kick
-20 for hats
-15db for bass
-15db for sub
-20db everything else

WTF?! Just put all the faders down and bring them up so things like drums have loads of headroom. I don't worry about where things are peaking as long as they've got enough headroom. Thats the point of the master fader isn't it? If it isn't peaking high enough just bring the master up. Sounds like you're way to hung up on making sure your levels hit a certain volume to actually get on with mixing anything to be honest. God knows how you might mix on a desk or if you didn't have a screen or level meter!

[therook]

Ok cool thank you guys for all the responses. It is becoming more clear to me now . I'm guessing it all comes down to how it sounds to your ears and then worrying about the peaks and all that?

My next question is, how can I tell the overall loudness of the sound? Is that by RMS? Or should I go by the peak meter?

I think I might have to pick up a mixing book

[macc]

There's only one way to reliably ascertain loudness, and that's with the curly flaps of skin and gristle attached to the side of your head.

RMS is - despite what TEH INTANETZ might tell you - largely useless for determining the actual perceived level of a sound as it fails to consider frequency content. Play a 30Hz sine wave and a 3kHz sine wave of the same RMS. Which sounds louder? Clue: When the 3k has you running from the room screaming, you have your answer

Seriously though, I'd politely suggest that the last thing you need at this particular juncture is a book. You need practice. You can't learn all this from a book and then go and do it. You have to do it, to do it. So mix mix mix mix mix and make tunes and enjoy it. It's not school, it's supposed to be fun. When you have a bit more time under your belt you'll have a little more to hold up against what twats like me on the internet say, for comparison with your own experience.

At MikkiFunk - I agree in general, though having *some, rough* idea of an *approximate* level where things sit in your own music can help you to make repeatable mixes in terms of quality. But there's plenty to be said for both. In any case - headroom is king!

[macc]

@ the OP - see paravarais' post here re numbers:

http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=183496

[therook]

There's only one way to reliably ascertain loudness, and that's with the curly flaps of skin and gristle attached to the side of your head.

RMS is - despite what TEH INTANETZ might tell you - largely useless for determining the actual perceived level of a sound as it fails to consider frequency content. Play a 30Hz sine wave and a 3kHz sine wave of the same RMS. Which sounds louder? Clue: When the 3k has you running from the room screaming, you have your answer

Seriously though, I'd politely suggest that the last thing you need at this particular juncture is a book. You need practice. You can't learn all this from a book and then go and do it. You have to do it, to do it. So mix mix mix mix mix and make tunes and enjoy it. It's not school, it's supposed to be fun. When you have a bit more time under your belt you'll have a little more to hold up against what twats like me on the internet say, for comparison with your own experience.

At MikkiFunk - I agree in general, though having *some, rough* idea of an *approximate* level where things sit in your own music can help you to make repeatable mixes in terms of quality. But there's plenty to be said for both. In any case - headroom is king!

Haha alright man thanks for the advice. I'm still in the uni mode where I'm trying to find god in a book.

My last question is about getting a more "crispy" mix. I've been favoring subtractive eq'ing over boosting things (some folks boost I've seen boost high bands by +5 to +7db!). Would less instruments in a mix make the sound more crispier by allowing more room in the freq spectrum? Or can you have a bunch of instruments that are properly eq'ed that still sound nice? I like to use the draw method when trying to visualize eq as well as having different instruments (pads, lead, bass, etc) at different octaves. To make my question clear, would better levels bring out crispness and less mud? Or does eq'ing and instrument selection take over that realm?

Thank you once again man for taking time to answer these questions

[macc]

Sound selection is king. Ideally sounds fit together without any need for eq (idealistic, but not impossible.... see classical music).

It's a balance of all three factors, namely;

The sound itself (and keeping/respecting that sound, which is why you put it in the track in the first place )
EQ
Level


The more sounds, the less room each can have. So you will need to do more work (eq), or the lower each has to be in level for it all to fit in. But the eq will affect the character of the sound, and dropping the level affects its musical/emotional impact * ... Ohhhh, it's a tough balance alright!






* not always negatively, mind - quiet can be very good

[therook]

Ah ok I get your point with classical music as each instrument has their own range (I'm assuming the overtones don't cause too much of a problem here but anyways..)

I've also come to realize that my room is not the most ideal for master. I use a pair of KRK 5''s on auralex pads with a couple auralex foam pads placed behind them. The speakers are sitting roughly 5 inches away from the wall (I'm sitting on a corner - note the picture)

Would it be better to mix (as far as levels go) in my HD 280's or are the monitors good enough? OR should I mix with just one monitor in mono? Hmm the questions continue