Scotland And Secession from UK

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Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by alphacat » Thu May 12, 2011 6:01 pm

LA Times wrote:
British elections: Triumph for Scottish Nationalist Party; defeat for Liberal Democrats

The independence-minded Scottish Nationalist Party wins a majority in the Scottish Parliament, the first time any group has done so. The Liberal Democrats, the junior partner in Britain's governing coalition, suffer humiliating defeats in local races.

Reporting from London—

A party advocating independence for Scotland has won a surprising mandate in the regional assembly there, according to election returns Friday that also showed the junior partner in Britain's governing coalition, the Liberal Democrats, getting thrashed in local races across the country.


A referendum on changing the way voters choose members of Parliament was heading toward a resounding defeat as well, matching the fortunes of the "Lib Dems," the party that most ardently championed it.

Britain's ruling Conservatives, who had braced themselves for heavy losses because of their radical plan to cut public spending, held up surprisingly well in the local elections, one year after winning power on the national level. Both the Conservatives and, even more so, the opposition Labor Party made gains in city and town halls at the expense of the Liberal Democrats.

But the stunner of Thursday's elections was the success of the Scottish Nationalist Party, or SNP, which won a majority in the Scottish Parliament, the first time any grouping has done so since the assembly was established in Edinburgh in 1999.

The head of the SNP, Alex Salmond, who will serve another term as Scotland's first minister, lost no time in declaring his intention to introduce a plebiscite on Scottish independence within the next five years.

"The SNP can finally claim that we have lived up to that accolade as the national party of Scotland," Salmond told cheering supporters in Aberdeen. "That is why, in this term of the Parliament, we shall bring forward a referendum and trust the people with Scotland's own constitutional future."

It's unclear how a referendum on secession, a longtime dream of nationalists such as actor Sean Connery, would fare at the polls. Although plenty of Scots favor unyoking themselves from England and Wales in theory, breaking up the union that has existed officially since 1707 would be incredibly complicated.

The SNP's victory was all the more remarkable because the electoral system for the Scottish Parliament was designed by the Labor government of former Prime Minister Tony Blair in such a way as to make it extremely difficult for a single party to capture a majority of seats.

Only a few weeks ago, the SNP trailed Labor in the polls. But as the election neared, the SNP capitalized on anger with the nationwide deficit-reduction plan approved by lawmakers in London and on disenchantment with Labor's campaign strategy in Scotland.

"Clearly we've seen a very substantial movement to the SNP in the last week," Salmond told reporters. "I think we can trace that almost entirely to Labor's extraordinary decision to relaunch the campaign as an all-out assault on Scottish independence."

Elsewhere in Britain, the Liberal Democrats, who played kingmaker after last year's general election, were humiliated at the polls in a reflection of their precipitous drop in public opinion over the last several months.

Many of the Lib Dems' core left-leaning supporters have never forgiven the party's leader, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, for joining the Conservatives in government and enabling a right-wing agenda they find horrifying.

Embarrassingly for Clegg, Labor won control of the city council of Sheffield, the area he represents in Parliament.

"We have taken a real knock," said a grim-faced Clegg, who only a year ago was hailed as the most exciting force in British politics. "Especially in those parts of the country — Scotland, Wales, the great cities of the north — where there are real anxieties about the deficit-reduction plan that we're having to put in place; we're clearly getting the brunt of the blame."

His party's most cherished cause, reforming the way members of the House of Commons are elected, was going down in flames in the vote tabulation Friday.

Partial results showed that Britons were soundly rejecting a proposal to introduce a system of preferential voting, which would weaken the duopoly of the Conservatives and Labor and give smaller parties such as the Lib Dems a better shot at more seats in Parliament.

The campaign over the proposal was marked by bitter recriminations between the coalition partners, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, with Clegg a frequent target.
I don't think that the UK will allow this to happen any time soon, but it's interesting - this continuation of the trend of the last 30 years or so for larger consolidations of political power to want to fall apart under their own weight.

And Sean Connery's a Nationalist. Why does that not surprise me? :corntard:

Any Scots here have an informed opinion?

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by kidshuffle » Thu May 12, 2011 6:44 pm

Hey, its like another Quebec situation.
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by jdw » Thu May 12, 2011 7:12 pm

We're not going to see independence any time soon. Despite the overwhelming support for the SNP, the majority of scots would vote against independence just now. The SNP were voted in on the basis of their performance in the last term, the pretty awful Labour campaign, and the collapse of the Lib Dem vote. What is likely to happen is the SNP will gradually try to win more powers from Westminster and garner support for independence.

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by Mr Hyde » Thu May 12, 2011 7:37 pm

Yeah, almost all of the Scottish people I know voted SNP because they like the way they run things and didn't like what the other parties were doing. Doesn't seem to be too much appetite for Independance.

Personally I can't see why anyone would really be all that bothered.

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by AntlionUK » Thu May 12, 2011 7:38 pm

I like Scotland. Never get why so many people knock it.
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by seckle » Thu May 12, 2011 7:58 pm

wow. reminds me of the anglo-irish treaty politics too. at least religion isn't a critical part of the problem here.

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by scspkr99 » Thu May 12, 2011 8:10 pm

The Anglo-Irish situation is very different and religion in Anglo-Irish relations is somewhat overstated.

There's some parallels to be drawn due to history I guess and I'd guess there are some religious connotations given the sectarianism that exists in certain parts of Scottish life but the SNP generally draws from a leftist demographic and the failure of the last Labour government and the Liberal coalition is too fresh for there to have been any other result.

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by seckle » Thu May 12, 2011 8:18 pm

scspkr99 wrote:The Anglo-Irish situation is very different and religion in Anglo-Irish relations is somewhat overstated.

There's some parallels to be drawn due to history I guess and I'd guess there are some religious connotations given the sectarianism that exists in certain parts of Scottish life but the SNP generally draws from a leftist demographic and the failure of the last Labour government and the Liberal coalition is too fresh for there to have been any other result.

there's always parallels between scotland and ireland in regards to not only politics, but the concept of "royalist", "unionist" and "sectarian". the civil war in Ireland of 1921-23, directly caused by the anglo-irish treaty, was not only a war with religious undertones, but a war over economics. England was never going to let an industrial port city like Belfast go. Strategically they needed it. obviously, those times were very different in the world, as everyone was still recovering financially from ww1, but there still are some comparisons you can draw.

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by scspkr99 » Thu May 12, 2011 9:00 pm

agreed but before it's simplified into a sectarian dispute consider the religion of many of the 18th and 19th nationalist leaders

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by chekov » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:42 pm

how are people feeling about this now?

just read this, thought it was quite interesting. not massively convinced there's going to be a 'yes' vote though
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... nly-option
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by test_recordings » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:29 am

I didn`t comment on this the first time but I`ll make my thoughts clear now: leave it to the Scots.

I have Scottish friends and I`d back them on whatever they choose. It`s like having a divorce, why force a partner who wants to leave to stay against their will? At the same time, the whole venture is a partnership and the UK was supposed to operate under one political system before Labour thought it would forever have Scotland`s gratitude by giving powers in devolution.

The UK political system also needs reform in many, many areas and one of them is Scottish MPs being able to vote on English law but not the other way around. That should be addressed as at the same time as a referendum so everyone can be sure that the re-constituted system will be egalitarian.
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by OGLemon » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:51 pm

So, next week on Thursday.

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by Forum » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:18 pm

I wonder how many Scots are digging out their copies of braveheart right now
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by mks » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:15 pm

Would Great Britain have to change its name. What about the United Kingdom?

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by nowaysj » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:29 pm

True the pound is down 4% over the last week?
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by Forum » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:49 pm

mks wrote:Would Great Britain have to change its name. What about the United Kingdom?
United Kingdom is the full name for GB and northern Ireland
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by AxeD » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:57 pm

southstar wrote:
mks wrote:Would Great Britain have to change its name. What about the United Kingdom?
United Kingdom is the full name for GB and northern Ireland
Yeah just like the Kingdom of The Netherlands.

It's bs.
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by mks » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:02 pm

Speaking of Kings and Kingdoms,

I come from a long line of English kings and an Empress (hint). Is there a stipend or fund for ex royalty? I should be gettin' paid for for this shit. :6:

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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by test_recordings » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:14 pm

I don't give a shit either way but I'll enjoy laughing at the queen and Cameron if it goes
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Re: Scotland And Secession from UK

Post by rickyarbino » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:55 am

mks wrote:Speaking of Kings and Kingdoms,

I come from a long line of English kings and an Empress (hint). Is there a stipend or fund for ex royalty? I should be gettin' paid for for this shit. :6:
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