Someone explain - What is and what is not "Dubstep"

[Nealge]

Most of the artists on this forum generally seem to create what I consider "laid back, background Dubstep." IMO these are tracks that don't have a catchy melody, wobble but don't really drop, and seem to sit in the background, offering nothing to really draw the listener into the song. There's nothing wrong with this, it just seems to be a particular subset of the genera. But most of all, I see it as being the easiest to make.


The next denomination I see is not nearly as common on this forum. These are the songs with obvious drops that are in your face and fill up more sonic space that just the sub. It's also got punchier drums and a more overall balanced sound. This is like stuff by Excision or Datsik. It's definitely harder to produce and captivates the listener much more.


And then, there's Skrillex, who I understand has lots of controversy around whether or not he's a true Dubstep artist. His sound has definite melodies, actual song structure, super punchy drums, and undoubtably the most difficult drops and sounds to reproduce or create in the first place. Also, his songs play like SONGS, not just background music. This is where my question comes up, why is Skrillex not respected among dubstep fans as true dubstep? Yes, songs like "Kill Everybody" or "Weekends" are very House-influenced. But tracks like "Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites" and "First of the Year" have nothing apart from a tangible melody to differentiate them from "traditional" Dubstep. They have a half time feel, are around 140 bpm, and they go womp womp. It's not even Drumstep, which is more around the lines of Reso. Is his style just a movement in a direction many artists don't want to follow? Or is it simply the fact that he's had such mainstream success in the past few months that people turn their nose up at him?



Honestly, "Melodic Dubstep" as I call it seems to be the direction things are heading but there are many people that are not down with that at all. Someone please explain to me why the "Skrillex sound" is not considered Dubstep by many of the members on this forum.

[AllNightDayDream]

LOL @ "they don't really drop"

The reason you don't think they "captivate" you is because it's meant for people with a more discerning ear and longer attention span. For me it's much more captivating because they act like detailed works of art with various bits of foreground, background, texture, etc. Details to be inspected and appreciated closely. The latter styles you talk about shove everything in your face and leave nothing to subtlety. This makes it easily accessible, not only to people's tastes but to people's sound systems. Not saying it's bad, good music for anyone is going to sound like shit to someone else. I personally was very much into the tearout sound for a bit, and can still appreciate a filthy tune if the producer actually does something interesting in it.

One of the main reasons people are reluctant to call skrillex a dubstep artist (myself included) is that a good chunk of his songs are made purely from the electro house formulas, which follows different rules than even the filthier end of dubstep. Even in his dubstep tracks he almost always features an electro-house verse.

What it was originally meant to be can be found in it's name. Dub music always features snappy snares, often with loads of delay and reverb, with a reggae-like bounce to it. Step comes from Two-step, dance music that focused on intricate shuffley drum rhythms combining all kinds of ethnic styles to create a syncopated feel to the beat. A large part of why people hate calling tearout tunes dubstep is because most of those producers are almost criminally lazy when it comes to their percussion.

To the masses, the people at large and more importantly the mindless teenage ragers who go out to clubs looking to get smashed on booze and pills and get laid, dubstep is to them as it is to you. For people who dig deep into the actual music, explore it's boundaries and appreciate it for the sonic wonder it is, dubstep has evolved far beyond the styles you have mentioned. It's essentially meaningless and vague, like "electronica" or even "house". It's become a much larger umbrella of various styles that share only their curiously fresh approach to computer music.

[wolf89]

You gotta be trolling

or you're literally the stupidest person to ever find their way to this site.

[ephyks]

12 year old detected. Incoming Skrillex army. Godspeed to all of you.

On a serious note.

The origins of dubstep are as follows.
Two-step beat
Heavy Bass

Motherfucker, dubstep wasn't even supposed to wobble. It's heavy sub bass music with a reagee influenced beat. It wasn't until dub started to deviate away from the original producers and the underground scene that it manifested into dubstep. Then people started to like the feel of heavy music and started to make the bassline the main element in the song. Then all these fucking metalhead bros wanted something to jump around to. They you got the crossfading of hard electro house and dubstep. Though it's gotten so bad that brostep at one point was the good shit, now fucking blows. Have you heard Skrillex's-Ruffneck? SHIT FUCKING SUCKS MAN.

MOTHERFUCKING DOG WHISTLE WOBBLES YOU BRO.

[kentnz]

but seriously, read your own post in 6 months time. You will or maybe

[Shum]

I swear I saw a post almost exactly like this a few months back.

[oprs]

what i said is too retarded.

here bro, i got a link for ya
http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=203841

[kaiten]

You gotta be trolling

or you're literally the stupidest person to ever find their way to this site.

This

[Nealge]

@ wolf89: I'm definitely not trolling. I actually think you're response is hilarious.

@ AllNightDayDream (that's a sick name by the way)
I am actually familiar with the history of the genera. I think it's intriguing that what is now a techno based music derived from dub and reggae.
I guess my biggest problem or handicap when it comes to listening to dubstep tracks the fact that I listen to it from a musical background. Lots of dub songs lack lots of tangible melodies, like the Kode 9 one I posted, which is why it's hard for a guy like me to connect to that sort of style. The trend I've been seeing is guys like 12th Planet and SKism move away from the more spacey sound to the more melodic style that guys like Skrillex or Helicopter Showdown are trying out. I think it's similar to the split in rock in the 60's and 70's. Some guys were doing singles while others like Emerson Lake and Palmer, Yes, and Rush went on to more progressive, musically complex styles. I feel some of the old-school dubstep is people staying in their comfort zone and refusing to expand past there. That is however, just my opinion.
Lots of the artist here on this forum, to me, seem to have a basic idea, and loop it over and over again without letting it evolve or grow. That's when I get a little bored. I do respect "pure" dubstep when evolution happens as the song progresses, but a lot of what I've heard here sounds like someone made a beat in Fruity Loops and copy and pasted a few times. That's not me trying to be mean, just saying what I think.
Music to me is a song, something that breathes grows as it goes on. I'll go on dubstep hunts a lot, trying to find new music or something that exemplifies talent and originality. I cannot respect tracks that are doing the same thing as everyone else.

And to set the record straight, I'm no Skrillex fanboy, I can just respect him as an artist like any other guy out there. To label everything he produces as "shit" is just ignorant and lacks originality. Yeah, lots of Skrillex is not good at all, but there's some impressive sounding stuff he's put out.

Ruffneck sucks a fat one, end of story

I think I said everything I wanted to. I dunno if I actually made an impression though

[grillwrecka]

I never post, but I'm drunk.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genera

[AllNightDayDream]

As a bebop sax player I think exactly the same thing. I mean you can look back at some of the nastier threads we've had and i've defended skrillex and company to far ends. They make great music in their own right, and melody wise they have moments of glory. Scary monsters is a real neat tune to play on piano. But they make dance music, as does most everyone mentioned on this site, and tunes will seem very disposable and "boring" to people who aren't accustomed.

Back when I listened to mostly bands and stuff, I used to think musical innovation was mainly in pitch, interesting melodies and modal changes etc. It's definitely true, as a jazz player that's what it's all about. But once I dug deeper it's clear to see there's a whole other layer to it that lies in the actual sound, tone, and atmosphere of the elements themselves.

As far as melodic dubstep goes, plenty has been done on the other end of the spectrum... In case you haven't heard em, these are a couple of my favorites that stay on rotation featuring neat melodies.

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9r7sVpsYb0" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkSOXaQmxLg" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4lvqf79c84&feature=channel_video_title" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

<iframe src="/forum/video.php?url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xt70z-iwmA" frameborder="0" style="overflow:hidden; height:auto; max-width:540px"></iframe>

Perhaps a different vibe than you're used to but all heavily influenced from the "laid back background music" style

EDIT: everytime someone here on DSF uses the word "troll", the more i'm convinced no one here knows what it actually means

[aquemini]

get a subwoofer and listen to 9 samurai again

[pulkpull]

The next denomination I see is not nearly as common on this forum. These are the songs with obvious drops that are in your face and fill up more sonic space that just the sub. It's also got punchier drums and a more overall balanced sound. This is like stuff by Excision or Datsik. It's definitely harder to produce and captivates the listener much more.

I think you are underestimating the skill involved in using space when producing. Creative and effective use of space is one of the hardest things to master in any genre.

It's all too easy to flood the entire spectrum with noise and keep people's attention and make it sound BIG. Not big as in good, mind, but big as in LOUD. Far harder, in my opinion, to use space as a weapon and not just have it make your track sound weak, thin and empty. The skill of a producer is not measured in terms of how much of the waveform you can fill with chainsaws and other industrial sounding noises. Although, there is a certain skill in realising that your audience doesn't have the patience for anything else. As a business venture it's great; as music it's for the birds.

A while back someone made that Skrillex/Doctor P parody and a good section of the fanbase thought it was geniune. Try doing the same thing with Pearson Sound or Loefah and see if the fans are as easily fooled.

[Montgomery Burns]

A while back someone made that Skrillex/Doctor P parody and a good section of the fanbase thought it was geniune. Try doing the same thing with Pearson Sound or Loefah and see if the fans are as easily fooled.

True !

[pkay]

Dubstep is crying on the internet at 140bpm

[LA_Boxers]

Another Skrillex thread..............Wooooooooooooooooooooo!!

Just out of interest, how do you listen to your music? Through a laptop, decent hifi system (incl subwoofah?), headphones?

Can you not admit that alot of Skrillex, Datsik, Excision, Doctor P etc etc use very similar sounds? The YoiYoi bass for example is a staple of that style of dubstep. How is it anyway innovative to re-use the same exact sound over and over than alot of people have used?

[Kochari]

Have you ever been to a sound system night?

If not, no further questions.

[mIrReN]

The trend I've been seeing is guys like 12th Planet and SKism move away from the more spacey sound to the more melodic style that guys like Skrillex or Helicopter Showdown are trying out.

The part were I stopped reading, you fucking troll

LOL @ pkay

[Shum]

Dubstep is crying on the internet at 140bpm

L O L

[dro524]

Lots of dub songs lack lots of tangible melodies, like the Kode 9 one I posted

How are those haunting horns not a melody?