Room treatment help (knowledgeable people only plz!)

[daft cunt]

Here's a scheme of my room. In red I indicated what I'm considering adding atm:
1 - curved plywood with fiberglass between it and the wall
2 - acoustic tiles or fiberglass (~ 1 m²)
3 - bass traps

Will that be effective and what else could be done keeping in mind I'm on a budget ?

Edit: btw, the ceiling is at 2,5 m.

[macc]

Oioi, thought I may as well get back directly here rather than by PM

Looks like a decent enough plan I'd make the following provisos;

- The poly (curved) diffuser on the back wall is a nice idea but I'd suggest that - at least at first - you concentrate on killing reflections from the back wall stone dead before worrying about anything else. I don't think a single poly would be particularly effective so close to it, it won't diffuse a huge amount. Plus mammoth amounts of bass trapping on the back wall is likely to be beneficial, bring the poly closer >>> less effective at the listening position.

- The plan is a bit 2 dimensional, that is, you'll need a cloud overhead for example. You may also get better results placing corner traps along the floor/wall or floor/ceiling corners rather than just vertically. You don't know until you try... Which brings me to my next point;

- Planning is all well and good but - particularly in acoustics - real life is an absolute motherf#cker of the highest order LOTS of iteration and nudging of x/y/z will be required. To put it another way, you won't know that the positions you have planned for stuff are the best positions in real life until you actually get measuring.

- Small practical point - I'd try to shift the desk back while keeping the monitors where they are, in an attempt to prevent reflections directly from the desk surface. However, you might need to have your keyboard, mouse, etc there which will effect things.

Get on it and get measuring, it's the only way to know for sure. Speaker position and balancing of modal/SBIR behaviour comes first though, before anything else. Put simply, get the best you can under 300Hz before worrying about anything else.

[macc]

P.S. and get ready for pain, headaches, frustration.... followed by unremitting joy when you get it done

[RandoRando]

- Small practical point - I'd try to shift the desk back while keeping the monitors where they are, in an attempt to prevent reflections directly from the desk surface. However, you might need to have your keyboard, mouse, etc there which will effect things

should he look into some stands for the monitors, how beneficial are those?

[daft cunt]

Thanks for your time Do you have some more ?

I'd suggest that - at least at first - you concentrate on killing reflections from the back wall stone dead before worrying about anything else.

Making some sort of checkerboard using lots of acoustic tiles or more likely a wallfull of them ? Any particular tiles ?

Plus mammoth amounts of bass trapping on the back wall is likely to be beneficial, bring the poly closer

Not sure what you mean. Are you suggesting to cover the wall with tiles, then put a diffuser on them ?

The plan is a bit 2 dimensional, that is, you'll need a cloud overhead for example.

Cloud overhead ?

until you actually get measuring.

Measuring what and how ?

Small practical point - I'd try to shift the desk back while keeping the monitors where they are, in an attempt to prevent reflections directly from the desk surface. However, you might need to have your keyboard, mouse, etc there which will effect things.

Everything is pretty much in front of the desk so that should be OK but I could saw at least 30 cm on the backside close to the window, should I do that ?

balancing of modal/SBIR behaviour comes first though

Yeah right

before anything else. Put simply, get the best you can under 300Hz before worrying about anything else.

I'll keep reading about that, I'm still a bit confused about that kind of things.

[daft cunt]

Alright, so I found this article on SOS and that video on DIY bass traps.
So basicly, I need like 4 of those, 1 for each side wall (would 2 be better ?), 1 for the ceiling above my head (is that what you call a cloud ?) and 1, possibly bigger, for the back wall + at least 5 little ones for corners ? Does it seem about right ?

[Sharmaji]

easy mate, got yr message.

agree largely w/ macc-- controlling the back wall's reflections will help for sure. it depends on how loud you're working on music-- if it's extremely quiet, it won't make that big of a difference-- but it's the 1st place i'd start. some owens corning 2x4' panels would do the trick.

I'd largely do more bass trapping than you've put up-- as many corners as possible, at least 4" thick. If you've seen the DIY basstrap thing, then you know how to go about that. also, just keeping simple rolls of R30--aka "the pink stuff" in corners on the ground would make a big difference.

either moving the table back, or moving the monitors forward, will help w/ super-early reflections as well. you could put them on stands, but i don't think that'll really solve your issue any more than just moving stuff will.

if you can, turn that sofa so that it's directly behind you. instant bass trap. doing something to control that wall behind you will make a big difference as well. The curved plywood is nice, and will look great, but it'll take a lot of $ and effort, and won't give you as much control as a couple of 2x4 owens-corning panels. you could even keep those just 1 layer thick, and beef up the corners w/ 4" thick panels. or-- get a bookshelf.

alternating 1x1 panels on the walls won't really give you much joy; it's too much space to control w/ too little material. It is, however, a great ceiling treatment, tho. I've had lots of luck w/ alternating those auralex panels with 1x1 sheets of cork on the ceiling above me; definitely much more focused high end.

let us know how it goes!

[decree]

It may be beneficial for you to fill out one of these : http://www.auralex.com/praf/default.asp

By virtually writing and supplying all the information you gave above you can get a free second opinion, seems to be a win/win scenario.

[nowaysj]

Am going to be doing some treatment. Bookmarking for later.

Would like to point out that Roxul rockboard has better absorption ratings for lower freqs than owens corning and is cheaper. (better ratings across the board [no pun], actually)

[macc]

Very brief, terse, hungover post

Forget Auralex, foam, tiles, all that shit. Waste of time.

Have to disagree with Sharmaji about the sofa too - most are made with closed cell foam, ie non-porous ie zero absorption. Also disagree about the level being important - air (being a fluid) behaves linearly with regard to level unless you're working at levels way above those of a jet engine. It might seem that working very quietly helps, but the room still contributes the same amount to the sound. Unles you're so quiet you have to lean right next to the speakers

Forget diffusion, you have more pressing things to worry about.

Cloud = overhead (ish) trap - exactly like what you have on the side walls, except to stop ceiling reflections. It will probably be slightly forward of your listening position (obvious when you think about it).

Measuring = you need a measurement mic (Behringer ECM8000 Ithink it is, £30 and does the job) and the free Room EQ Wizard software. You need to measure the room behaviour or else how do you know you are making things better?

Urrghhh.... off to feel sorry for myelf...

[daft cunt]

Thanks a lot for your help Sharm!
Thanks Decree, will fill one out.
And also thanks Nowaysj for the input. I read on SOS that the density matters a lot, don't you think it's more a matter of density than brand ?

To sum it up a little, regarding the material I need rockwool that's 10 cm/4" thick and 75 kg/m3 dense (roughly 50 lbs/feet3 if I'm correct), right ?
Regarding the position :
* 2 x 60x120 cm (2x4') panels on the back wall
* 1 30x30 cm (1x1') panel at every wall-wall corner at the height of the monitors + every tri-corners, which would make something like 12 of them.
* nobody mentioned the side walls, is one 60x120 cm (2x4') panel on each side enough or should I consider having 2 ?
* how many do I need for the ceiling ? Or should I rather get a couple of those Auralex pads instead ? If so, which ones ? Some designed for mids and highs ?

When making the panels, do I need to leave some space between the rockwool and the wall or not at all ? I watched 2 DIY video tuts, one guy did, the other not ? Does it make a difference ?

So... all these are bass traps, right ? Am I not supposed to deal with the mids & highs at some point ?

[daft cunt]

Very brief, terse, hungover post

Forget Auralex, foam, tiles, all that shit. Waste of time.

Have to disagree with Sharmaji about the sofa too - most are made with closed cell foam, ie non-porous ie zero absorption. Also disagree about the level being important - air (being a fluid) behaves linearly with regard to level unless you're working at levels way above those of a jet engine. It might seem that working very quietly helps, but the room still contributes the same amount to the sound. Unles you're so quiet you have to lean right next to the speakers

Forget diffusion, you have more pressing things to worry about.

Cloud = overhead (ish) trap - exactly like what you have on the side walls, except to stop ceiling reflections. It will probably be slightly forward of your listening position (obvious when you think about it).

Measuring = you need a measurement mic (Behringer ECM8000 Ithink it is, £30 and does the job) and the free Room EQ Wizard software. You need to measure the room behaviour or else how do you know you are making things better?

Urrghhh.... off to feel sorry for myelf...

Thanks again!
Grab yourself a beer, best way to deal with hangovers imo

[daft cunt]

So... all these are bass traps, right ? Am I not supposed to deal with the mids & highs at some point ?

OK just realized the Owens Corning fiberglass 703 or 705 is recommended for mids and highs, so do I only use this for the walls and rockwool for the smaller square bass traps in the corners ?

[nowaysj]

In regards to brands, I don't care about brands, I've just seen the Roxul products with published better absorption coefficients across the board.

Q for the sound guys - I will be sealing my absorbers to prevent the leaking of carcinogens all over me (if you don't think rockwool is carcinogenic, dig deeper), would a loose or tight sealing membrane be preferable?

[daft cunt]

I'm a bit confused. I was at the main hardware stores in my town and none is telling about the materials density. How do you go about picking one then ?

[paradigm_x]

Sorry just got your pm

Not much to add that hasnt been said above.

Fix your loudspeaker position first, then do measurements etc, moving them will throw everything off!

A bookshelf with various different sized objects is a great diffuser!

The higher the density, generally the better the LF absorption.

I like the idea of the SOS style bass trap which is a large heavy sheet (damping material) in a box with some rockwool basically, much better use of space. Although damping material is a pig to work with. Its heavy!

When making the panels, do I need to leave some space between the rockwool and the wall or not at all ? I watched 2 DIY video tuts, one guy did, the other not ? Does it make a difference ?

Leaving a space is ... depends on whether you want the long or short description. Basically, for a given depth, better to fill out, but can be effective at certain frequencies with a gap. Ill explain more if you really want to know...

WRT sealing, ive heard good things about a mix of PVA glue and water, but dont know a huge amount TBH. Most of the time its done with a permeable (breathable) fabric. Cotton should be fine, anything you can physically breathe thru.

Should be doing some treatment to my own room soon too. Once ive decorated the main bedroom

Wondering if i can avoid a measurement mike, i have access to £30ks worth of Sound level meters but not a £30 behringer! not looked into room eq wizard yet.

[daft cunt]

Leaving a space is ... depends on whether you want the long or short description. Basically, for a given depth, better to fill out, but can be effective at certain frequencies with a gap. Ill explain more if you really want to know...

Thanks for getting back to me mate Yeah I'd like the long version when you've some time.

Actually, I just finished making 5 120x60x12 cm traps. I finally found some dense rockwool (70 kg/m3), it was only 4 cm thick so I put 3 layers per trap.
These things look way to big for my studio I reckon I feel surrounded by some sort of giants.
I put one in the corner behind the right speaker, 1 on L & R walls from where I'm standing, 1 in the left corner behind me and one on the back wall. I still have to make a couple more, smaller ones for the ceiling tricorners, measure it all to find the best positions but you can already tell the difference

Best of all, it cost me approx 150 € to buy enough stuff to make 10 of those fuckers

[daft cunt]

Should be decorating the main bedroom soon. Once ive done some treatment to my own room

Fixed

[SLASH]

one thing that works is placing some 2x4 wood horrizontally across the back wall and it's cheaper than sound dampening foam
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also check out this link, it's pretty cool

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-200 ... tle-balls/


Soundcloud

[daft cunt]

one thing that works is placing some 2x4 wood horrizontally across the back wall and it's cheaper than sound dampening foam

Yeah that was the idea at first but according to everyone involved in this thread I'll deal with that later.

also check out this link, it's pretty cool

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-200 ... tle-balls/

The link is fucked.