Effects making my synths sound worse?

[Jacob15728]

OK, so when I'm trying to make a dirty brostep bass I can usually get something pretty good straight out of the synth, but it doesn't sound quite professional. Problem is, all the effects I try to add sound terrible. I've tried using Camelphat, bitcrushing (I always keep this very dry though, like 5-10%), saturation, a very short delay on the upper range, TAL tube distortion, vocoders, and more but I can't get anything to sound good. I always try to not overdo it, and have even tried setting every effect almost completely dry for just a very subtle change, but no matter what the effects always make it sound worse.

You might tell me to just not use effects but that can't be the answer. There are so many people using them to make great sounds, and they should be improving my sound. Maybe I'm just getting bad settings for stuff like Camelphat, but for the really simple plugins like saturation or TAL Tube that shouldn't matter, right?

[3za]

It sounds to me you're just adding effects hoping they will make your sound better

There are lots of different effects , with even more parameters. When shooting in the dark, you rarely hit the target.

What have you got? What do you like/dislike about it? Were do you want to take it?

[Toolman4]

Like SOOOOO many before you, this "performance gap" has been addressed several times. You say you get good bass from the synth. Then your next step is to add the FX hoping that it will change what you hear. Like many before myself, I will tell you that you cannot "polish a turd". As a budding producer, a LOT of what you make in the synth of your choice will sound descent. (This is a HUGE consistency among budding producers that are interested in filth/brostep/heavy shit because distortion will sound powerful, even coming from a turd).

I PROMISE YOU....YOU ARE NOT SYNTHESIZING INTERESTING ENOUGH SOUNDS.
You have to think about FX plug-ins as tools to accentuate the dynamic characteristics of your synthesized sound. For instance, I have SEVERAL times taken 3 saw waves, all in separate octaves, detuned them,added unisono, slight distortion, dimension expansion, (yes i'm working with massive), and throw on a LP filter...Wow do i LOVE that bass. It's so raw and powerful. HOWEVER, try adding FX and see what it does to the sound....Now take a sound that you have modulated to all hell in your synth utilizing envelopes, lfos, etc....THEN add some FX and see how it affects the sound...I promise you, work more on synthesis of sound. If your not getting the "professional" grade sound you want right out of the synth, KEEP WORKING. If you can't get that ever so popular hollow datsik sound using flanger, phaser, chorus, bitcrushing, and notch filtering (all of which can be modulated INSIDE your synth), you need to spend more time in your synth.

No one ever wants to hear "MoAR Practice!", but those are the breaks when it comes to learning something as deep as music production.

[nowaysj]

... and brostep is over already. Brostep died in 2010. I don't know anyone still listening to it.

[ChadDub]

Yeah seriously I don't know anyone going gaga over DAT FILTHY DROP BRUV anymore, get into that deep shit.

[Sine69]

... and brostep is over already. Brostep died in 2010. I don't know anyone still listening to it.

I still listen to it

[RandoRando]

^^^ that explains every skrillex and doctor p show selling out

[wub]

Lets leave the brostep bashing for this one, shall we guys?


Toolman answered the question perhaps best - more practice. Throwing effects onto a sound just because you saw/read something where someone did it and got great results doesn't mean you will automatically get the same results.

[VirtualMark]

i find that adding different distortions and filtering can help. the thing to do is, add a plugin, and decide if it beefs your sound up nicely, or takes something away from it. experiment with different effects, settings etc, try to keep the changes subtle and hear the difference. don't just whack one distortion on full, put a few different ones on a low setting. try filter before/after distortion to hear the difference, reverb before/after distortion etc, just to see what it all sounds like.

read/watch tutorials, as many as you can find. you'll build up a whole picture, it just takes a bit of time. look into sending your different basses to a group channel then processing them all together to get them to blend(i.e ny compression). theres a lot of methods to learn, just persevere. i was exactly the same a few months ago, now i'm starting to notice an improvement, although not sounding 'pro' yet!

[samurai]

I started out sampling so I used to do a lot of resampling and messing with fx. when I got into software synthesis I naturally took the same approach, a lot of resampling, building up huge fx chains. a while back I decided to change this though, I personally felt as if all the effects were muddying up my signal and I was after a purer, cleaner sound.

now I leaved all my synths untouched by effects, I even try to avoid eq, compression and reverb if possible. sometimes I apply a tiny bit of reverb on a send just to glue some tracks together. and if I do decide to use eq and comp on individual channels I try to make it as minimal as possible.

and like everybody else said, just practice. what works for one person may not work for the next.

I work that way now because of a certain sound I'm after. I think you may be after a different sound but I think the point still stands.
when I was beginning to learn synthesis I was always trying to make crazy and aggressive sounding leads and basses, I don't even really like those sounds, I just wanted to be able to make them. well I'd usually get 50% there with the synth and then I'd be like "I need to get this sounding more aggressive and dirty", then would come the inevitable fx chain of bitcrushers, distortion, comp, etc, anything that could fuck up the signal. usually just made things sound much, much worse.

[nowaysj]

^ same way, barely even using filters on my synths now, hahaha. What sound are you after?

[Ldizzy]

i will sound like an asshole but heres a thought i keep in mind everytime i produce...

effects dont make stuff sound worse, you/i do.

cause i used to formulate things just like that thread title... theres no such things as TOOLS THAT MAKE STUFF SOUND GOOD, or ONE GOOD WAY TO DO THINGS.. there's knowledge, practice and taste...

[Ldizzy]

let me reforumulate this in a less pedantic way :

dont go for threads about how to make your synths sound better with effects...

look for threads that tell u what effects actually do.

[jrisreal]

It sounds to me you're just adding effects hoping they will make your sound better

There are lots of different effects , with even more parameters. When shooting in the dark, you rarely hit the target.

What have you got? What do you like/dislike about it? Were do you want to take it?

This, definitely. When adding effects, dont just add effects for the sake of adding effects, and don't add them in huge amounts. Add effects when you feel a specific need for that effect to act on that sound. Also, play with the mix knob, sometimes effects sound better in lower doses.

[amphibian]

... and brostep is over already. Brostep died in 2010. I don't know anyone still listening to it.

All of australia unfortunately.

To the OP - you've got the right idea, you just need to keep practising. Also be selective of what you add to your synth. EVERYTHING you add, should be more dry than wet, add small bits at a time.

Edit: Also - sometimes certain FX can make the top-end quite harsh. A low-pass filter put at the right location can soften it up slightly and make it sound cleaner.

[Teknicyde]

Yeah seriously I don't know anyone going gaga over DAT FILTHY DROP BRUV anymore, get into that deep shit.

You just redefined bandwagon jumping.

Why should he 'get into' as you call it 'deep shit'...

There is nothing 'deep' or passionate about 'getting into' something because 'noone listens to that other stuff anymore'

[daft cunt]

OP: make your synth sound as good as possible in the 1st place: make use of every single feature of your synth that can help fattening things up/make it more interesting (modulation is key).
Then think about how you want your synth to sound like then look for the right effect to make it happen.
If you want:
* more dimension: try some chorus, reverb (applied to hi frequencies only) or unison
* more movement: through in filter automation, phasers, flangers, etc
* more fatness: multiple distortion plugins with a tiny amount applied each time works great, then you'll need to EQ once in a while. Again, it's not about doing it for the sake of it but because there will be unwanted frequencies in your sound. Get to recognize and deal with them. Compression will also help pumping it all and make your bass cut through the mix.
* more growl: nothing better than multiband distortion to emphasize a given range of the frequency spectrum.
* even more fatness: consider layering your sound/patch with other stuff that compliments it. It may be the same patch/sound an octave higher, a different patch, granulized sounds, etc.
That's about all I can think of right now but there are many more options.

A couple more tips:
* don't just throw effects in mindlessly hoping something good's gonna come out. Take the time to adjust, A/B, compare with another effect, etc until you get familiar with the process.
* sometimes using an effect will lead you to use another effect to compensate. For example, phasers are subtractive so I usually apply some distortion after to bring the harmonics up a little while keeping the movement.
* using standard (non multiband) distortion plugs may bring up unwanted frequencies which will need to be attenuated by an EQ.
* bare in mind that for instance, distortion before and after a flanger won't have the same effect, so get to know the chain orders that please your ears.
* browse other forums like IDMf or The Grid @ DOA, lots of valuable infos out there.

[Jacob15728]

Yeah seriously I don't know anyone going gaga over DAT FILTHY DROP BRUV anymore, get into that deep shit.

You kidding me? Go to any brostep song on Youtube and look at the comments. Brostep is WAY more popular.

Anyways, I do like listening to the deep shit. I just listened to Burial's latest album last night and really enjoyed it, and I also like stuff like Benga, Kryptic Minds, all that good stuff. I just prefer to produce brostep because it seems to have a more technical side to it with all the interesting bass modulations, and I enjoy the aggressive sound because I used to be really into metal. It's popularity is a bonus too, since getting into dubstep was the first time I actually liked music that is popular!



Thanks for the replies everyone, I appreciate your help. You can be sure that whichever synth I'm using, I am using all of its features and fully understand how to make an interesting patch. My problems have really been with the effects chain, not with the patch. I'll try the stuff Daft tnuc mentioned and see if that helps.

Now on a slightly unrelated note, anyone use Kontakt? In my latest song I've been using a lot of different sounds and melodies, all pieced together. I decided to bounce them all out and just piece them together with audio so I don't have like 5 instances of Massive, but this is also really annoying because I have a huge number of audio clips in my song and it's really hard/annoying to keep track of them all, and my list of channels is like 3475936340 feet long. I tried using Kontakt to make this easier but the interface and workflow is so counterintuitive it makes me want to cry. (Also I haven't had much luck doing the modulations, I tried using the flexible envelope sort of like the performer on Massive but it doesn't work nearly as well as performer) Am I going about this the right way or should I just ditch Kontakt and do it the way I've been doing it?

[symmetricalsounds]

effects dont make stuff sound worse, you/i do.

QFT!

[oprs]

Anyways, I do like listening to the deep shit. I just listened to Burial's latest album last night and really enjoyed it, and I also like stuff like Benga, Kryptic Minds, all that good stuff. I just prefer to produce brostep because it seems to have a more technical side to it with all the interesting bass modulations, and I enjoy the aggressive sound because I used to be really into metal. It's popularity is a bonus too, since getting into dubstep was the first time I actually liked music that is popular!

Bru mutha fuckin ha ha har haripidy harpo,

Alright, reproduce some goth trad stuff if you think its not technical.
Bro step is the least technical thing to produce, its got not no soul and no aim.