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Who pimped out the dubstep wikipedia article?

debate, appreciation, interviews, reviews (events or releases), videos, radio shows

Postby 7" » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:57 am

its better now, big ups for its author(s).

evolution
Suddenly, there was a terrible roar all around us, and the sky was full with what looked like huge bats, all swooping and screeching and diving around the car, and a voice was screaming:
Holy Jesus. What are these goddamn animals?
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Postby kaini » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:57 am

Echo Wanderer wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:Digital Mystikz, Random Trio and Kode 9 were all featured on the soundtrack for the 2006 sci-fi film Children of Men.


I wonder why Pinch & Dutty( for "War Dub") weren't mentioned.

:?


they are now :)
errrr hello, longtime anon lurker, first time poster.


myself and two other excellent, tireless editors are trying to get the wiki article to GA (good article) and eventually FA (frontpage!) material.
have to say wiki policy can be annoying sometimes, there's some good stuff on these forums (especially the production forum) i'm itching to reference :(

worth mentioning as always that as with any wiki article, any editor is only standing on the shoulders of others who came before him.
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Postby djl » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:56 am

big ups
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Postby incyde » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:17 pm

kaini wrote:
Echo Wanderer wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:Digital Mystikz, Random Trio and Kode 9 were all featured on the soundtrack for the 2006 sci-fi film Children of Men.


I wonder why Pinch & Dutty( for "War Dub") weren't mentioned.

:?


they are now :)
errrr hello, longtime anon lurker, first time poster.


myself and two other excellent, tireless editors are trying to get the wiki article to GA (good article) and eventually FA (frontpage!) material.
have to say wiki policy can be annoying sometimes, there's some good stuff on these forums (especially the production forum) i'm itching to reference :(

worth mentioning as always that as with any wiki article, any editor is only standing on the shoulders of others who came before him.


out to u man. welcome to the forum as well :)
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Postby blackdown » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:05 pm

I think it's fairly well known I wrote most of the early content of the first editions of this page, though it's clearly moved on a long way from there. Bigup to all the pimpers.

One point i have issue with is the intro:

"The first reference to dubstep in the UK national press as a genre, or sub-genre came early in 2004. The Independent on Sunday commented on a 'whole new sound', that it said was being called by five names:"

As we all know, dubstep started to define itself - in style if not yet in name - around 2000. Ghost 001 is a good starting point imho. So I resent the suggestion that the genre needs to rely on a piece in the IoS, four years after it started, before it could officially "exist".

Why should whether it's been picked up by a broadsheet have any more weight to it's existance? I for one was writing about it in the "national press" in 2001 - i put El-B in The Face for example.

So cant we ditch this bit about the IoS? I happy to edit the page but wanted to seek feedback from fellow 'steppaz...
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Postby kaini » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:49 pm

Blackdown wrote:I think it's fairly well known I wrote most of the early content of the first editions of this page, though it's clearly moved on a long way from there. Bigup to all the pimpers.

One point i have issue with is the intro:

"The first reference to dubstep in the UK national press as a genre, or sub-genre came early in 2004. The Independent on Sunday commented on a 'whole new sound', that it said was being called by five names:"

As we all know, dubstep started to define itself - in style if not yet in name - around 2000. Ghost 001 is a good starting point imho. So I resent the suggestion that the genre needs to rely on a piece in the IoS, four years after it started, before it could officially "exist".

Why should whether it's been picked up by a broadsheet have any more weight to it's existance? I for one was writing about it in the "national press" in 2001 - i put El-B in The Face for example.

So cant we ditch this bit about the IoS? I happy to edit the page but wanted to seek feedback from fellow 'steppaz...


hey martin, big respect for being the person who originally took the article beyond stub status. it references a bunch of your articles on blackdown now as well, you might have noticed :D

i agree that the intro is a little clunky. i think what's being done there is trying to establish what wiki defines as notability early on in the article, but it does scan a bit misleading. i'll give it a tweak later...
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Postby 31g » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:19 am

Blackdown thank you for writing so much of the article, I think Wikipedia is really lucky you decided to do that.

(I'm User:P4k on Wikipedia)
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Postby blackdown » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:27 pm

kaini wrote:i agree that the intro is a little clunky. i think what's being done there is trying to establish what wiki defines as notability early on in the article, but it does scan a bit misleading. i'll give it a tweak later...


OK so what can we do to shift it down the piece a bit. Can I dig out old features ie El-B in The Face?
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Postby kaini » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:19 pm

yeah, that'd be great. a few quotes, and the right date/issue number, and we're sorted
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Postby autonomic » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:08 pm

here's the 2002 xlr8r issue for reference, if needed. that's when the term is generally considered to have been coined.

http://www.riddim.ca/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=37
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Postby autonomic » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:31 pm

Just had a look at the article. I give up. I really can't understand why Riddim.ca keeps getting deleted from there. There's a total of 85 articles on the site, plus 21 artist profiles. Never mind that the Hyperdub articles hosted at Riddim always manage to stay up and that Pearsall's Plasticman interview is used a footnote for the article. I thought we'd discussed that Kaini. Gutterbreakz shouldn't have been deleted either. Yet, Boomkat is there.

While I'm at it, the North America section is very spotty. Jason Mundo (Dallas), Keith P (Dallas), DeepSix (Hamilton/Toronto), Joe Nice (Baltimore - btw, I believe "Dubstep Ambassador" was coined in his first interview at Riddim.ca) and G Notorious (Boston) are amongst the earliest people playing and making (proto-)dubstep in North America after 2000. People like Dave Q (NYC), Kuma (Vancouver) and myself (Ottawa) come along after that (2003-2004), putting out mixes, promoting, writing and making links with the UK. There were also significant single contributions from producers DJ Abstract (Tempa) and Eric H (Hotflush). Then there was a third wave of producers, DJs and promoters beginning in late-2005/early-2006, that includes people like Matt Carl, Sek, Parson, Bowzer, DZ, etc.
Last edited by autonomic on Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby blackdown » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:36 pm

xlr8r piece should definitely be of central importance in the top.

there's no reason why Gutta and paul's links should be deleted. Wiki-guys can we deal with this?

on a US tip, what about Goldspot too?
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Postby autonomic » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:41 pm

thanks martin.

and, wiki guys, if it does get dealt with, is there a way of permanently marking something as being legitimate content? it seems that just when you've convinced one editor of an inclusion, another comes along and changes things.

previous thread on this: http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t ... =wikipedia
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Postby seckle » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:31 pm

autonomic wrote:is there a way of permanently marking something as being legitimate content? it seems that just when you've convinced one editor of an inclusion, another comes along and changes things.

i've been saying this for a long time. many pages on wikipedia are locked from editing.

i understand that the whole "creative commons" concept means that the "community" as a whole has a say in regards to the definition of an entry, but there must be a quota or a limit. the chief problem with all the re-editing of this page over the last two years, is that the people doing it are putting in their labels, radio stations without any real sense of the history of this genre. this kind of promotional based thinking is detrimental to everyone.

there should be one or two main editors of the page, and every new proposed re-edit should go through them.
Last edited by seckle on Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby seckle » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:36 pm

what i don't understand about the wikipedia system is that a genre like RNB, which is nearly 50 years old can still be edited?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues

but, islam is locked from redefinition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam


it can't be one set of rules for certain subject matter, and another set for everything else. it's a bit ridiculous.

respect to kaini for doing up the current page though. big look...
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Postby autonomic » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:00 pm

sorry, deleted (i hit quote instead of edit)
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Postby ozeb » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:16 pm

this brought a smile to my face today... love that many journalist crew are in this thread discussing how to increase the fidelity even further.

See? the internet is more than just for porn :W:

:wink:
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Postby cure » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:35 pm

ozeb wrote:this brought a smile to my face today... love that many journalist crew are in this thread discussing how to increase the fidelity even further.

See? the internet is more than just for porn :W:

:wink:



all we need now is pornstep and we're set.
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Postby 31g » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:06 pm

autonomic wrote:While I'm at it, the North America section is very spotty. Jason Mundo (Dallas), Keith P (Dallas), DeepSix (Hamilton/Toronto), Joe Nice (Baltimore - btw, I believe "Dubstep Ambassador" was coined in his first interview at Riddim.ca) and G Notorious (Boston) are amongst the earliest people playing and making (proto-)dubstep in North America after 2000. People like Dave Q (NYC), Kuma (Vancouver) and myself (Ottawa) come along after that (2003-2004), putting out mixes, promoting, writing and making links with the UK. There were also significant single contributions from producers DJ Abstract (Tempa) and Eric H (Hotflush). Then there was a third wave of producers, DJs and promoters beginning in late-2005/early-2006, that includes people like Matt Carl, Sek, Parson, Bowzer, DZ, etc.


Autonomic, I mean...it's Wikipedia. Most of it's terrible as a matter of course. We do our best but 1) we can basically only write things that have already been stated in the media and 2) it's not like I get paid to edit there or anything. You're right about the links though, I'm embarassed about that.

Edit--I'm sorry for being defensive about this, I do appreciate hearing what you think of the article.
Last edited by 31g on Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kaini » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:18 pm

seckle wrote:what i don't understand about the wikipedia system is that a genre like RNB, which is nearly 50 years old can still be edited?????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhythm_and_blues

but, islam is locked from redefinition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam


it can't be one set of rules for certain subject matter, and another set for everything else. it's a bit ridiculous.

respect to kaini for doing up the current page though. big look...


well, i'm not the only one working on it, just as much respect is also due to 31g and zeibura, the other maintainer, and of course everyone else including martin who helped shape the article. yeah those links do deserve a place and they're back in there now. what you have to understand is that there's a constant battle to stop people inserting spammy (as opposed to worthwhile) links to their geocities fansite on burial or whatever, just like you mentioned, seckle. about half of the editing i do on wiki is fixing vandalism or removing spam, and i think your trigger finger gets a bit itchy after a bit of that.

as regards islam being locked, if you look at the discussion page, it gets very heated at times, with a bunch of editors all trying to push their particular POV onto the article. RnB isn't such a controversial issue, hence no lock. in an ideal world no pages would be locked, but we don't live in an ideal world.

unfortunately there's no way of marking something as "fact - don't remove" but the closest you can get to that is finding a bunch of solid references and attaching them to a fact. people don't delete properly referenced material as often, which is why blackdown's interviews are such a useful source for improving the dubstep article.

imma have a look at that xlr8r article and maybe give the intro section a tweak later...
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