Confused about gain structure now..

[MassAphekt]

K so I understand when your song is most busy with the most shit going on at once your mixdown shouldnt peak above -6db...so I do that...but it sounds so lifeless and weak, especially when I playback in asio mode in traktor pro, I understand mastering would make it louder and such and I already tested it out with ozone 5 and it still sounds weak, its like an amplified kick thats WEAK, so itll just be a weak loud kick and I do parallell compression and transient shaping and sidechaining with quick release and attack but yeah....what Im trying to say is why do I always see these "professionals" that give tutorials and their songs are always clipping or near clipping? especially in fl studio tutorials, they are always peaking around -2 - -1db...im so confused, is the db structure different in fl? or what?

[raincoatdisaster]

-turn up the volume on your speakers..

-layer your kicks

-get a good limiter and throw in on your master bus if you need to play it out before you can get it "mastered"..

[blinx]

Sometimes i feel like ppl get caught up in "peak"ing and forget that your tracks RMS level is very important too. Because if your peaking at -6db loudest part of the song... doesnt mean your song is playing at -6db infact id imagine its probably actually quite a bit lower RMS signal.

Find out what your RMS of the track is. Assuming your RMS is lower then -6db... find the elementin your track that is actually peaking the meter at -6db and figure out how to handle lower this spike (compress/limit/eq/whaterver magic you need to do). Then reanalyze your track and see where your Peaking at. If you found the offending elements then your peak should now be closer to your overall RMS. Now you should be able to 1. fix the rest of your mix and bring the level up some more in the mixdown so your rms gets closer to -6db without peaking to much higher than -6db. This more or less will bring the overall track to a more consistent level... which is important when you start the mastering process. IF you dont find these mistakes in the mixdown when you goto self master (aka slap ozone on it) you wont be fighting the peaks isntead youll be able to evenly boost your track to a sound "louder".

THis is just my 2 cents im not Macc and dont claim to be any type of ME or expert on the subject... just my observations from my own projects.

[nowaysj]

Nah, it's a little known fact, flstudio uses different db's. The Belgians for some reason have an older legacy scale of db's, and Belgian coders often use that scale, and not the one used by everyone else. That is why music produced in flstudio sounds quiet and thin.

[raincoatdisaster]

Nah, it's a little known fact, flstudio uses different db's. The Belgians for some reason have an older legacy scale of db's, and Belgian coders often use that scale, and not the one used by everyone else. That is why music produced in flstudio sounds quiet and thin.

Learn something new everyday.. I use logic.. but out of interest whats the solution.. not using FL?

[meer]

You have to turn up the low-frequency sarcasm detection on all your compressors.

But anyways, the numbers don't matter. -6db is not a magical number that will make things sound better. Step away from the tree and try to find the forest. The best solution would be to do more research on digital audio and really understand it.

[Fbac]

A nice explanation i heard the other day was. After a good mixdown, have it peak at -6 or -10 . (As your doing) .. The reason being now when you pass it on to master (or do yourself) You could EQ -Boost it +6 or +10 db.. If your track didnt need it then you wouldnt need to go down that far.. (additionally you may want to master compress and thus your input gain and output gain could add a (small) boost. )

When i heard that i kind of realised how well a good mix should be.

*And then people put a brick wall limiter on the very end with very little reduction i think (only if you need it,, like say at one point it peaks up by +1db but no where else in the track <--- i think ..

As for the sounds in your 2 wips i wouldnt say those were weak sounds, played thru my system.


(Also to see if your track is properly mixed down , playing it back at a really loud volume ive found to help to see if its cliping or disroting if your not sure. (as well as seeing if the mix is good)

but as already said its all dependent on what your doing no set rules just guidelines .

As for what the final masterd output should be, ive hear 0 , -0.1 and -3 . With not much explanation apart from "thats what ive been told / seen and it was fine" ... theres something about converting a track to .mp3 tho .. and the recomendation is to have the final out put at -3. (but have also been told that didnt actually make sense)

hope this helps

[MassAphekt]

I appreciate your feedback , though Im still somewhat confused about the gain structure of fl studio? Im having a tough time finding a RMS meter lol, unless there is one in FL studio?

[MassAphekt]

Sorry for double post



K so I learned that wave candy could give you an rms meter, unless im mistaken
but yeah, I previously made sure my mix didnt go above -6db on the fl db meter
but I checked on the rms meter on wavecandy on the end of my master chain fx and it said I was like -14db? so is there something im missing? the pic I provided shows comparison, when I have my mix at average -6 to -5db on wave candy, it goes +2 to even +4 on the fl db meter, which would you guys suggest I go by?

[Electric_Head]

I appreciate your feedback , though Im still somewhat confused about the gain structure of fl studio? Im having a tough time finding a RMS meter lol, unless there is one in FL studio?

If you render the tune and import it into Audacity, you can create your own baseline base on FL.
Turn everything down to a volume, this isn`t specific.
Render the track and check the peak volume.
Adjust FL accordingly.

[meer]

There's a master volume slider in the top left of FL Studio. Middle-click it to reset it to zero and middle-click the master level fader in the mixer, while you're at it.

[MassAphekt]

...it's always been like that

[Electric_Head]

...it's always been like that

just do what I said to create a better baseline for yourself.

[nowaysj]

Pretty sure peak and rms are covered around here in more depth by people that really have a handle on it, but peak and rms are totally different things, bro. They tell you different, pretty self explanatory things. Rms is the average level of your audio. If you are peaking at -6 and averaging at -14 you have pretty good dynamic range. When mastered your rms could be -8ish which is not terribly hot by today's standards, but it shouldn't sound totally wimpy.

Not sure what you are asking at this point. I think you are asking how to mix well? Fl studio's gain is no different than other gain. So stop thinking the problem lies anywhere other than in your brain.

[lowpass]

If you want loud, aim for it from the word go. It's better to aim for it every step of the way than waiting till the mastering stage and then asking to ME to crank it louder than usual (which is not a good thing for anyone!)

My advice if you want loud is make sure you have these elements loud on their own. As mentioned try layering kicks but also make use of compression/distortion + limiting to achieve your goal. 2nd get the other main parts of the track (snare and bass) to do the same. If you have this done correctly then your track should already be pretty hot before it's even bounced. Then at the mastering stage there may only be a bit of eq'ing and a touch of limiting for the last little push. (Everybody wins! )

[Electric_Head]

Pretty sure peak and rms are covered around here in more depth by people that really have a handle on it, but peak and rms are totally different things, bro. They tell you different, pretty self explanatory things. Rms is the average level of your audio. If you are peaking at -6 and averaging at -14 you have pretty good dynamic range. When mastered your rms could be -8ish which is not terribly hot by today's standards, but it shouldn't sound totally wimpy.

Not sure what you are asking at this point. I think you are asking how to mix well? Fl studio's gain is no different than other gain. So stop thinking the problem lies anywhere other than in your brain.

this

why would FL be any different

[MassAphekt]

Pretty sure peak and rms are covered around here in more depth by people that really have a handle on it, but peak and rms are totally different things, bro. They tell you different, pretty self explanatory things. Rms is the average level of your audio. If you are peaking at -6 and averaging at -14 you have pretty good dynamic range. When mastered your rms could be -8ish which is not terribly hot by today's standards, but it shouldn't sound totally wimpy.

Not sure what you are asking at this point. I think you are asking how to mix well? Fl studio's gain is no different than other gain. So stop thinking the problem lies anywhere other than in your brain.

this

why would FL be any different

I unno, I just heard stories of how fl uses a different db system but yeah I guess we're wrong lol
and baseline? how would I go about that electric? I appreciate your help bro but Im still slightly lost, should I just go by -6db on the db meter and suck it up? cause I have to crank my speakers all the way up just to actually hear the great detailing of each element..its so annoying

[nowaysj]

If you have a decent audio i/o and decent monitors, you should have to turn them down to prevent yourself from getting arrested (they are so loud).

If you have to turn it up, turn it up. It's not that annoying, now is it?

[MassAphekt]

well when I have a house full of others it does get annoying having a conscience with loud music LOL
I can barely concetrate knowing Im distracting many others..but yeah I smell you

[nowaysj]

No, I feel you on that...

But bro, think about it.

Vaving your mix peaking at -6db and turning up your speakers 6db is no different than having your mix peaking at 0db and keeping your speakers the same. If you audio i/o and monitors are not legit... well then gain staging probably isn't the most important thing.