System With SUB vs System with NO SUB

[Perfecture]

Hey guys,

sorry for making a new topic for something so small, just need a little guidence and couldn't find a thread relating to this exact issue.

Basically I am in the final stage of finishing my first track, I am so stoked with everything apart from the low end on systems with no or little SUB presence.

When I play the song in my car or headphones (Proper studio cans, no cheap shit ) it sounds completely fine. I have A-Bed it with other similar tracks and the sub, kicks, snares etc sound at the same level and hit as hard.

My problem lies when I play my track on a system that has very little SUB or no SUB it doesn't sound like it has the low end the same tracks I A-Bed have when I play them on a system with no or little SUB Presence.

Do I need more boosting around 100-200hz area for the track to still have beef on a system like that or are there any other tips or things I could possibly do?

The midrange/basslines I am using are rolled off at 100hz and have low end content prominent down at that range (been using voxengo span to clarify this) and it's not like I have any high pitched sounds that leave the bottom part of the spectrum empty. This being the case how do tracks like sweet shop, bass cannon (don't slam me for those examples haha) etc that have high pitchy mid range synths still carry the low end on the systems with little SUB presence.

I appreciate any help and will pay in sex if needed, Cheers friends

[Today]

you made system music... it wants a system. Sex now, please

[PERCEPT]

I usually use just a sine wave for my sub, which means that it is very rarely heard on smaller computer systems. Absolutely bangs at a show though, and that is all that matters.

Those that you can hear a pronounced low end on shit speakers are probably using something other than a pure sine, it'll be lowpassed waveforms to give it the low end but with more harmonic qualities.

At the end of the day this is sound system music, i don't really care if you can't hear the sub on computer speakers. Makes it even better when you hear that track that you've been rating on a system for the first time and the sub blows you away.

[Perfecture]

I usually use just a sine wave for my sub, which means that it is very rarely heard on smaller computer systems. Absolutely bangs at a show though, and that is all that matters.

Those that you can hear a pronounced low end on shit speakers are probably using something other than a pure sine, it'll be lowpassed waveforms to give it the low end but with more harmonic qualities.

At the end of the day this is sound system music, i don't really care if you can't hear the sub on computer speakers. Makes it even better when you hear that track that you've been rating on a system for the first time and the sub blows you away.

True True big systems are what it's made for I guess

The system I am mainly referring to is a surround sound system (that has a sub but it's not big at all) and like computer speakers, If your idea of their subs being low passed saw waves etc is true then that at least rectifies me not having to worry about bossting between 100 - 200hz. I would happily boost in this area but figured out recently that this area can get muddy as fuck with boosts. So trying my best find an alternative method or technique to bring out the low end on systems with little SUB presence.

Maybe when the track is mastered the ME might boost the EQ slightly in that area resulting in a better low end on the systems in question.

Cheers for the help man,

Today - I would fuck you, but your reply lacked the detail I needed towards solving my problem

[Today]

in seriousness tho, a fix on the master is unlikely.. i would revisit the mix and those low-mid elements.. tell you the truth, though, i have the same problem pretty often, so i don't know what to tell you specifically. Maybe a low end bus (sans sub) with some bus compression, EQ boost then compensate on the master bus to avoid mud but bring out presence in that area. or just carefully layering a bass over your sub?

I have made an 808 bass and layered it with a high passed, distorted copy of itself with pretty good results. i can hear the bassline on a laptop and the sub hits on my sub

good luck

[press]

sub beef would be more in the 30-70hz range, ideally 40-60hz. hard to tell without listening.

[Perfecture]

I have my SUB rolled off at 100hz, so its got all the room from 100hz down for its presence. and I have made sure that my levels are all playing well together (everything is gain structured properly).

I think a bit more fucking about will do the trick, I am just curious as to much low end content other people use in their basses (100hz to 200hz). because I may not have enough and might be able to boost without muddying up my mix. I have been producing for and year and half now, so I consider myself to have a decent ear for mixdowns now and elements working in a track overall, just thought I would point this out so that I don't receive any noob tips hahaha. Save people some time.

Although it is seen as bad practice by some, I would add very subtle overdrive to my sub, but I find the problem with this is, it take a bit of power out of the SUB, is this me talking shit or are there others in agreement on this?

Today - Might try adding a subtle bass like you said, as kind of like a harmonic overtone on the SUB, see if it works or not. Oh and Since you gave a more detailed reply you can have sex now

[Today]

(i suffer from premature ejaculation)

[wormcode]

You can try a subharmonic synth, or something to add some overtones to it, but you have to be careful as a lot of times that will do more harm than good, though it's a good way to get pure sub to be 'hearable' on things like car speakers or earbuds. Are you solely using headphones to mix on? Which ones?
Also I wouldn't trust home theatre systems or PC systems too much, they are usually made for higher frequency content. Films for example use mostly the muddy rumble, usually not thick sub-bass. Same with games. Depends on the system I guess though.

[syrup]

You shouldn't really aim at making music that sounds good on shit equipment, i reckon

[Jas0n]

Obviously it's impossible to say what's the best way to go without digging into your track fairly deep, which is your business alone, but one thing you might try is either replace or layer your sine with a triangle waveform. That may get your bass into the audible spectrum on a shitty system. It also may completely destroy your piece. But you can get consistent, strong, smooth sub response from a triangle with a bit of work...?