Throwing Maximus / Ozone on the Master - very wrong?

[Perej]

Hey everyone.

I've been getting a bit frustrated with trying to get the quality of my tunes sounding as clean as the artists I love. I realize that they've had their stuff mastered and have been making music for much much much longer than I, so that was taken into account before messing around with these 2 things.

I've been told by a mate never to put things on the master. Thing is, that's all very well and good for him, because his tunes always sound far more professional despite minimal processing and effects, (Logic, *sigh*.) Unfortunately for me I don't have a macbook & I'm on fruity right now, though I doubt it makes that much difference.

Sticking Ozone 5 on the master and setting it to Vinyl master makes everything sound a bit more weighty. Maximus also has quite a punchy effect.

Would someone mind running me through why this could be a bad thing? (I've read most of the moneyshot thread by the way before you use that one).

[Attila]

Because you're throwing aside improving at mixing in favor of an "easy solution" that doesn't exist. I wouldn't start throwing shit on the master until I knew exactly what I wanted to do to the sound (eg instead of "I don't know what's missing so I'm going to throw ozone on and twiddle knobs" I'd wait until I knew "This mix need ___ and ozone is the best tool to achieve this").

[nowaysj]

(Logic, *sigh*.)

[lloydy]

I don't think it is bad to use things on the master as long as you know what your doing.Putting ozone on the master and using a preset is probably a nono but learning ozones functions through and through till you understand them then using them on the master i think is ok.Someone posted a vid a while back with some me chatting about it an he said that using a preset is wrong for the simple reason different tracks need different processes in the mastering stage.
Also if you watch the danny Byrd vid he says he uses ozone on self maters to play out untill he is happy with the track then sends it to a mastering house,now if its ok to use on a tune your playing in a big club then why is it a nono?
I use ozone on all my self masters and they are sounding ok,i really do think 90% of it is in the mixing stage,lacking weight check your low end,no shimmer check your top end.......see what i'm saying.
When you set ozone up are you actually checking what the vinyl master preset is actually doing,i'll bet you it is just maximising the signal also maybe you will see in the multiband compressor the lows are probably gained a bit too.
Honestly set ozone to 100%wet and fuck around yourself it really is easy to use and there is a fuck ton of info on the net for it.
I would just like to state before any type of arguring starts from my post i self master because i don't release music and i like to limit my tracks A TOUCH and still have some dynamics ok so yeah self master away mofo.

[didi]

Attila summed it up perfectly. If I'm going for a certain feel I might put certain plug-ins on the 2buss such as Bootsy's Baxter eq for sweetening the mix, or FerricTDS for an analogue feel (MASSIVE Bootsy fanboy here) but it is never "I fancy a phatter mixdown, so I'll whack on Ozone on preset 4". Work on making the mix as warm, punchy, clear, and as big as the Ozone preset.

Ozone can actually be very useful as a reference. If by improving your mixing technique you can get the track as big as the Ozone version, you've achieved a powerful mix whilst still being in control of the song, and knowing exactly what you've done.

So yeah, put stuff on the 2buss that you know and understand, but leave out the magic plugins that seemingly generate loudness out of thin air. With practice you'll do a better job.

[sunny_b_uk]

nothing wrong if you have good monitors, if using it honestly sounds better then go for it. iv actually used soundgoodizer on the master channel before since it made the song sound better (not because it was louder.. the maximizing and compression adds character) always remember to bring down the make up gain so your comparing at a similar volume level, the volume can get higher when adding these FX so it could fool the ears into thinking that its better.

[Killamike49]

Soundgoodizer is just a preset on maximus with a dry wet knob, haha.
And as long as you learn it, of course there's nothing wrong with putting it on your master. I usually load up maximus, turn everything the fuck down, and build up from there. It's really not hard to get your head around what everything is contributing to the sound, and if you're having any moments where you're just scratching your head, look at the manual. Shit is leet, haha.

[Augment]

If it sounds good, do it.

[samurai]

I'm going to jump in here and offer a counter argument. not that I agree with. just stating it for the sake of it....

while it's technically sound advice to tell somebody not to apply an effect, or do something, if you don't know what you're trying to achieve or why you're doing it. it should also be noted that the same can be said of pretty much all art. aka don't start making art unless you know exactly what you're doing and why you're doing it. I doubt everybody who's writing tunes nowadays has answered those questions in regards to why they fundamentally feel the need to create.

there are no concrete rules. all art (and sticking ozone on the master bus because you have some vague idea that you want to use it is all part of the artistic process) is malleable.

[didi]

True. However he's gonna gain a lot more in the long term if he reduces his reliance on Ozone or whatever, and learns how to achieve that effect. No-one is advising that he never touch the 2buss and stay away from Ozone, just that he learns what he is adding to the sound when he adds Ozone, so that he can do it himself, and do it better with his own plugins, reducing his reliance on Ozone.

[nowaysj]

Samurai, you're right, but consider the OP's level of artistic development. Dude is trying to gain control of his sound, attempting a fairly objective quality of sound. To that extent, it is more of a technical endeavor. We both know his tracks will sound poor until he starts using Logic.

[Perej]

True. However he's gonna gain a lot more in the long term if he reduces his reliance on Ozone or whatever, and learns how to achieve that effect. No-one is advising that he never touch the 2buss and stay away from Ozone, just that he learns what he is adding to the sound when he adds Ozone, so that he can do it himself, and do it better with his own plugins, reducing his reliance on Ozone.

I'm not a complete moron, I can see what it's doing vaguely. It doesn't make a massive difference it just adds a nice shiney feel to it. I just don't know how to replicate the kind of punchiness that I want without it, you know?

Anyway thanks for the advice guys, nice one.

[Perej]

Samurai, you're right, but consider the OP's level of artistic development. Dude is trying to gain control of his sound, attempting a fairly objective quality of sound. To that extent, it is more of a technical endeavor. We both know his tracks will sound poor until he starts using Logic.

Haha, judging by your previous posts I can't tell if srs.

[MassAphekt]

I used to do this on FL Studio with maximus, It gave me the impression it made my mixes sound heavier and better, but I was wrong. The idea is to get your mixdown as clean as possible. I used to think it made my mixes sound great but damn looking back it made my music sound harsh with plenty of unwanted artifacts, I suggest to not use maximus on your master whatsoever, unless you just want to bring the overall volume up a tad

[nowaysj]

Honestly, I've recently found great pleasure in abusing maximus, using it as a sound design tool rather than a maximising plugin. Capital GREAT.

[Killamike49]

Honestly, I've recently found great pleasure in abusing maximus, using it as a sound design tool rather than a maximising plugin. Capital GREAT.

Yeah, if you're going for like feed me style basses or something like that, you can squash the shit out of it.
I also think it's a pretty good limiter/maximizer, but that's an opinion of course.

[didi]

True. However he's gonna gain a lot more in the long term if he reduces his reliance on Ozone or whatever, and learns how to achieve that effect. No-one is advising that he never touch the 2buss and stay away from Ozone, just that he learns what he is adding to the sound when he adds Ozone, so that he can do it himself, and do it better with his own plugins, reducing his reliance on Ozone.

I'm not a complete moron, I can see what it's doing vaguely. It doesn't make a massive difference it just adds a nice shiney feel to it. I just don't know how to replicate the kind of punchiness that I want without it, you know?

Anyway thanks for the advice guys, nice one.

The key word is vaguely. If you know exactly what it is doing you can tweak it to suit your needs.

[Dystinkt]

i usually throw maximus on the master to bump it up to 0db, i usually mix to around -3/-4db

[Rezzidex]

shit,,,i just put maximus i load up "clean master" preset ,,,,reset the celing to 0 db and i fix the freq bands ,,ahahhahaha im such an idiot,,,i mean i dont know it sounded good to me

[Augment]

shit,,,i just put maximus i load up "clean master" preset ,,,,reset the celing to 0 db and i fix the freq bands ,,ahahhahaha im such an idiot,,,i mean i dont know it sounded good to me

You're not an idiot. If it sounds good, do it. It's that easy. If soundgoodizer sounds good on whatever, a bass for example, use it. If you don't do it even if it sounds better to you, then you are an idiot.