Is ambition actively discouraged in electronic music?

[zeta]

This has been a question that has interested me for quite a while and I had hoped to pose it here for sometime now.

Many of the dubstep scene's revered artists who have become famous have done so through lucky breaks, Skream remixing In For the Kill or Burial's sudden publicity, or surprise crossovers, such as sbtrkt with his album and Magnetic Man with theirs. Few have done so intentionally, but those that have had lofty ambitions and became successful seem to be alienated, whether deliberately or accidentally - and with continued popularity and rising ambitions, such as Benga stating his hope to be a leader in the EDM scene by producing a variety of music, there has been a lot of discontent, for lack of a better word. Plenty of producers seem happy to do the same thing over and over again.

This doesn't seem to be a trend with just dubstep either. It happened in drum and bass, with Pendulum changing their style to keep things interesting musically for themselves. I'm trying to recall other instances now but atm they escape me.

It seems a weird trend that those that had always had ambitions, not necessarily of being mainstream gradually lost touch with the rest of the scene. Is it because ambition is something that's discouraged by an elitist niche? Is it just coincidence, or a lack of musical interest? Or is it just me?

Also, 'ambitions' again doesn't mean mainstream success or wealth. Few of the producers in the popular scene seem to have ambitions to try something different, seemingly content to rehash material, so is it even something to do with attitude?

[Lye_Form]

Doing music for the money is discouraged, therefore monetary ambitions are yes. However having ambitions for releases etc is encouraged. Most producers want vinyl releases & DJs want to play well known/big nights.

Rehashing material is discouraged, originality is encouraged.

[kaiten]

Skream payed large dues before that LaRoux remix, I don't see the point there.

[speak braille]

There is a lot of grey when it comes to this subject. Yes, people resent when artists they previously enjoyed seem to alter their sound or artistry in order to cash in more lucrative veins of music/art. It's not that people dislike the artists/producers/whatever making money is at the cost of a unique and original sound that attracted them to the person in the first place. In the end artists can do as they wish not everyone has the same desires/principles/morals. Doesn't mean their fanbase or loyal buyers will be into it, but they shouldn't expect that either.

[Today]

there was a thread "What is selling out?" with a lot of different responses
But overall i think "selling out" is what's discouraged. Ambition is a trait but not a specific deed or goal. It means you want something bad enough to try.


After giving it a little thought, i think selling out is * doing stuff you'd normally frown upon for the purpose of earning monetary compensation" whether it's writing music you'd normally class as shit, or posing with a sports drink you actually hate, or being sponsored and wearing a corporate clothing brand whose business practices you disagree with (think sweat shops, trend-hopping and big markups) ... or you know, opening for deadmau5 or something.

This kind of shit s discouraged or condemned by a lot of fans. But as per "ambition" in a general sense, i think it'd be a challenge to find a music producer who's seen any level of success who isn't very ambitious.

[bright maroon]

I think what you guys are talking about here has more to do with
"celebrity" vs. the nature of a scene that has soul.

[alphacat]

I was gonna chime in but you guys (^) pretty much nailed it.

It's not ambition in and of itself that's discouraged: it's ambition at the expense of the music... When somebody who's good deliberately compromises their sound in order to bring in more lucre.

[bright maroon]

hypnotized by the taint and glitz

[ultraspatial]

This is common to all music scenes, not just dubstep.
And Skream and Benga didn't get "lucky breaks", they worked for years to make a name for themselves. And they received attention before 2009, it's just that dubstep wasn't big enough for majors.

[speak braille]

Skream and Benga gave enough. So many pure dubs, people that ask for more are selfish.

[alphacat]

This is common to all music scenes, not just dubstep.

Was gonna say earlier: see American hardcore [punk] in the late 80's.

[ultraspatial]

This is common to all music scenes, not just dubstep.

Was gonna say earlier: see American hardcore [punk] in the late 80's.

Wouldn't give hardcore as an example, hardcore bands from that era didn't really get to sell out. Unless you count emo and pop-punk bands formed later by some of the dudes involved.

[Muncey]

Many of the dubstep scene's revered artists who have become famous have done so through lucky breaks, Skream remixing In For the Kill or Burial's sudden publicity, or surprise crossovers, such as sbtrkt with his album and Magnetic Man with theirs.

Become famous through unlucky breaks I'd say... not in monetary terms I guess. Commercially successful tunes can sometimes ruin producers. I don't think any of those examples had the intention of getting commercial success and therefore wasn't made with money in mind and a lack of ambition. In fact I think the Skream and Mag Man are examples of showing ambition, nobody within the dubstep underground scene was really remixing chart songs in a style of dubstep.. he probably wasn't the very first to do it but he certainly was one of the first and, commercially, it worked.. I don't think he ever had the intention of what happened and money in mind, he was just trying something new and it got commercial success. Mag Man were one of the first in the dubstep scene to try live shows.. yeah you could argue the music was probably made for the commercial side rather than the underground but it still showed ambition to try these things in the first place. Commercial success is sometimes the result of having ambition and having the bollocks to try something new, if it works they usually get a taste for money and their productions fall in quality as they rely on their name and commercial success to pull them through, in short they become lazy and less creative.

Dubstep as a whole is a great example of that, the few in the beginning had the ambition and the belief to push the sound that wasn't popular at all.. playing to a handful of people at a time. That ambition and belief pushed it to what it is today.. on the commercial side its become lazy and less creative, "underground" is still pushing some top quality stuff though.

I'd like to point out I do not think this has happened with Skreams producing, still think hes a top producer despite his success and continues to put out some decent stuff.. he has one of the best back catalouges you'll find in this genre. His tune selections are pretty commercially focused though which could be argued has something to do with his success.. but thats part of being a DJ, you play tunes you like.. if he likes that stuff and wants to play that sound, fair enough.

[alphacat]

This is common to all music scenes, not just dubstep.

Was gonna say earlier: see American hardcore [punk] in the late 80's.

Wouldn't give hardcore as an example, hardcore bands from that era didn't really get to sell out. Unless you count emo and pop-punk bands formed later by some of the dudes involved.

Most of them didn't make it into the broader spectrum of top 40 pop, but within the scene it was a hugely divisive issue - the beef between Screeching Weasel and Husker Du being the prime example that comes to mind. Ben Weasel said that by them no longer playing 220 bpm rage-rock they were the ultimate sellouts, but Husker Du was just musically bored with that idiom and wanted to grow and started writing songs with big hooks.

Major labels were just beginning to 'farm' the US alternative scene and saw post-hardcore bands as being viable for exploitation... except most of the bands either wanted nothing to do with it or self-destructed before getting too far. But they all laid the groundwork for what's out there now. There would be no Foo Fighters without Husker Du.

[Alistairr]

people that criticise artists for changing their sound really annoy me, most (decent) artists are extremely openminded when it comes to music, they listen to lots of music and thus have lots to give to a variety of genres. This is not them moving with the times or selling out, its simply them experimenting with a different style of music, that is all. The almighty cringe when you get some kid who likes x dubstep artist- who is now producing garage/house, and starts complaining cause x artist has sold out is just pathetic, immature and predictable.

artists should be allowed to express themselves in any shape or form and the audience should be openminded enough to accept whatever direction the artist chooses...alas this is not always the case because often the audience isn't open minded enough or gets bored too easily....

[Today]

except when it's obvious that a change-in-sound is not growth, but rather a disingenuous sellout move --- like Muse brostepping out their latest

[Shum]

BM with the wisdom drop.

[bright maroon]

BM with the wisdom drop.

I editted my original post because I thought it was too mean...
But I'll say it again...

Are you in it for your "block" - and I use the term "block" loosely

or do you just want to fly to Vegas - do a show for a majillion nameless faceless people...
who stand for nothing but a bottle of champagne up a hookers ass...

I personally think you can do both..
...if you don't get hypnotized by the taint and the glitz on the way up...
ie skip the champagne up the hooker

I'm not just a customer. I am a person that cares for your artwork.

[bright maroon]

You could say I'm being all fucking emo by relating on some kind of personal level...

But isn't that what it is?

I swear to god if you wanna tell me I'm supporting your ass crap...
I'm going to be offended - offended that you tried to sell me that.


Having fun experimenting is one thing...
The arrogance of bukkake art can go die.
That's child abuse.

I used multiple metaphors there - for those board readers that confuse easily..

[bright maroon]

AND...I still hate Kanye West.

I will always hate Kanye West.


Especially after that Rollingstone interview he did.