SOLD ALL GEAR, Building Studio after 5+ yrs, PICS!!!

[chopsui]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to say first I love this forum like crazy. I have spent so many hours looking through articles and reading all the bomb info collected here I've never really had a reason to post. Finally I do, because it involves some really specific stuff like my room size, etc. Hopefully someone else in my position will find this post and won't have to ask this again.

So I was getting by with my Akai MPK61, M-Audio Fast Track Pro (I know...) and Sony MDR-V6 Studio Monitors for a long time. One day I realized my my akai 61 isn't much more than any old $20 casio midi controller with a few knobs, faders, and horrible quality pads. (long story short it was $100 off and got it for the same price as a smaller one.) I'm selling that junk (actually my GC warranty came in really handy for once they're giving all my money back , plus when I tried to send in the m-audio FTP they just sent me a check for $160 and let me keep it, which is why I haven't replaced it yet.)

I've been working in FL Studio for 4-5 years now and I know the ins and outs of that DAW, hotkeys and everything. I rarely use stock plugins (tho sytrus and some others are really bomb if you learn em, not presets -_-) , I got all the bomb VSTs, mastering tools, filters, melodyne, etc.

Anyway, since I saw Ableton's live record to automation, I've been going crazy about how much more fun it is to jam live and actually have hardware to mess with instead of just clicking, especially when I'm making a new custom sounds and playing with different beats and I want to tweak a bunch of diff knobs. I just map all my synths to my numark mixtrack (LOL I KNOW!, but I realized I had a bomb midi controller with 15 knobs, 6 faders, and like 25 buttons to trigger effects/turn loops on and off).

FL 10 has a beta for performance mode right now which supposedly does the same thing so I'll be sticking with the program I've mastered. none of that which is better who-ha. I know whats better for what.

Now that that is outta the way...

GEAR TIME!

Monitors: I am using a 5.1 surround sound speaker system that sounds godly when I'm making beats, obviously it's not translating very well which brought me on the whole subject of Near-Field Monitors. Before you cringe and say I shoulda searched, I already did all my homework. I'm looking at getting some A7's if I can afford them or else some Mackie MKII's without a sub cause im kinda broke, plus I hear the Mackies have great bass response and since I'm making mostly dubstep and electro, NS-10's or HS50s with NO response would just leave me guessing and walking to my car to test my mix all day, though I love how NS10's supposedly make all the crap sounds pop out so you can fix them, but thats for when I got more $$$$$. I guess I could get new ear pads. http://www.head-fi.org/t/178381/sony-md ... eplacement ) I hear these are way worth it. But there are disadvantages to only using headphones and I'm sick of ear fatigue, messing up my sexy hair, headaches, etc.

I know my V6's pretty well as reference monitors, the bass is slightly boosted, subbass is barely there, highs are bright etc, but like some people mentioned there are disadvantages to mixing on cans. I just realized how much I hate using headphones all the time . I have a big head and big ears cause even an hour with those V6's and my ears are aching so bad, I need some near-field monitors and I'm willing to spend some money on acoustic treatment.

I'm super serious about my music, though I am gonna stick to my skill level as far as prices. For gear I was thinking portable cause I don't like how the 61 took up my whole workspace, I might even get a keyboard stand but I'm looking at these 37 and 49 key midi controllers. I put a lot of thought into it if you're getting bored it's about to get cooler.

Midi Keyboard: Is it neccesary? Right clicking on the keyboard in FL lets me select a ton of chords and scales so I'm pretty comfy just using a computer keyboard, but I really do want a keyboard just so I can explore chord progressions, etc, plus massive doesn't let you use the computer keyboard only a midi keyboard works while I'm tweaking knobs unless I want to infinite loop it... which I don't. That's why I'm thinking I could live with a 25 key but not the AKAI LPK, keys were so tiny I hated that thing.

I was gonna pick up an old $20 yamaha or casio from the thrift store and use that for a midi controller (they usually have a good amt of keys and they are smaller) , it just need mod and pitch wheels. I was also gonna get another piece of hardware just for the start, pause, stop, record, and tracking buttons. I was thinking...

http://www.amazon.com/Korg-nanoKONTROL2 ... =korg+nano


It'll give me really good control over the program and also individual mixer tracks, muting, soloing, takes a lot of the click work out. I'd like that Behringer BFC2000 with motorized faders, I don't need it bad enough to spend $200 and I hear the motors fail pretty fast. I can just use the FL mixer, but I do need those play/pause/record etc so I was thinking of getting an M-Audio Oxygen 25/49. It's noob but it has what I need, I dont want the LPD since I already have mad knobs, and you have to open the damn thing and put tape on every pad to make it even semi-responsive.



For Midi Controllers: I narrowed it down to these.

I was leaning towards something more portable since I find inspiration all over the place outside when I take out my laptop, and it'll save space in the studio, I think better without clutter everywhere. I think a smaller midi controller will be fine maybe even a 25 just b/c I like the keyboard, I'm really only getting it for direct midi controls so I don't have to click out of massive, click play and pause all the time, etc. (I heard the knobs operate on an acceleration curve, lame, can you change it? I changed my Mixtrack to run on a linear curve and can change how many it increments by, is it a deal breaker?)

If I don't get the nanoKONTROL2, Oxygen is cheap and would give me some extra knobs, faders, and most importantly play, pause, stop, record, etc.

#1 http://www.amazon.com/Korg-MICROKEY37-3 ... 27&sr=8-15 $90
#2 http://www.amazon.com/Alesis-Q49-49-Key ... i+keyboard
#3 http://www.amazon.com/Akai-SYNTHSTATION ... controller
Before you call me crazy for #3, hear me out. I got an ipod touch laying around, the synthsation is like $40, portable, and the ONLY mini controller I've seen with pitch bend and mod wheels. Plus I can use it to make rough beats on the go when inspiration hits, and it would still be somewhat useful in the studio but 2 octaves is nothing, which is why I'm leaning toward the Korg Microkey. I could live with it though I think it's pretty small and cool.

I'll prolly either get the nanoKontrol + Synthstation25 or $20 midi controller or just get the oxygen, but its noob and I dislike m-audio, plus its less portable (I think? Goin to GC soon to check out some gear)

Last for hardware, Novation F'kin Launchpad! Great for ableton, soon great for FL studio 10 too! I love how its so customizable! It can be a mixer, trigger pad, a knob, fader. I love the way you can jam out a rough beat with some samples, then I would go re-make my own sounds with subtractive/modular synthesis. (I'm no sample hoe.)

I mean that thing just looks fun as hell, and thats the whole point right? I just wanna jam out some beats and go fix em up all cool later. I'm thinking that launchpad may be one of the only pieces of hardware I need if it can do all the things I think it can do, I'm just not familiar with it but I learn like a beast when I'm motivated. I hear the pads aren't so great, cant be worse than on my MPK tho (MPK is no MPD), but its sooooooooo customizable and PRETTY COLORS. I don't really do much drumming I just want a cool sample trigger and the way it can be a mixer just blows my mind, possibly replace the Behringer BFC2000? and who knows what else.

Audio Interface: FTP will crackle and pop randomly in the middle of an FL Studio session, it's junk. I know I'll have to spend $200-$400 but I want something that's rock solid. I was gonna go with the Focusrite Saphire 14 since I hear the preamps and converters are bomb, I don't record bands and don't plan to. I just like making my own beats, 2 phantom powers should be plenty.

Last but not least accoustic treatment: are these guides adequate? or is there some better material/guide I can use? I'm not looking to go uber pro box in a box but I want my monitors to work well.
http://www.homestudiocorner.com/home-st ... treatment/
http://audiogeekzine.com/2008/04/making ... -tutorial/
http://www.homestudiocorner.com/intro-a ... ent-video/
http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

BTW my room has a high ceiling, lower on one side (should I put my setup there?)
Right now I have my speakers angled to try and minimize phase problems as much as possible, but if I'm buying $300 near-fields I'm down to spend some money on accoustic treatment. All my equipment/couch/worktable are following the wallls so the center of the room is open.

Here's pics of the room I'm working with. I want to have gear that I can take outside of the studio sometimes though, and I love the extra space that portable gear gives you.

http://imgur.com/a/CxoWY#0

All tips, advice, and opinions are greatly appreciated.

[chopsui]

Cmon guys I know it's sunday but can I at least get some advice on accoustic treatment, heck pick a midi controller tell me why I shoulnd't get a $20 casio. A lot of good topics in here, sorry for the wall of text. If you don't want to read just skip to the links I tried to space things out so it's not too overwhelming, but this has been on my mind for days and days. I'm gonna go to GC and check out these different keyboards and see whether I like the mini keys or what. I'll probably just go for portability so I'll post back what I exchange my Akai for. BTW, Akai MPK drumpads don't even come close to Akai MPD. They say they're the same, they're not. I swear my $100 numark mixtrack dj midi controller has better buttons, just no velocity.

Also taking a test CD to GC and testing out their Studio Monitors.

Also, I hear the pads on the MPD's are better than the launchpad, but is it worth the money? GC will price match me a launch pad for like $100.

[chopsui]

Don't know if anyone's really watching but I'm gonna just update this post for my own references. So I went in today to GC and met with two very cool dudes. I was just looking for a quick replacement for my Akai MPK61 since I was gonna use that money towards some studio monitors, way better spent.

I think I changed my mind about the portability thing. Those mini keyboards are like toys, the keys are so small I can't even really hit them accurately.

One thing I found out was that the Launchpad saves your mixer settings so when you load up different tracks, you dont need a Behringer BFC2000 with motors that automatically move to their previous levels in order for your mix to get all jacked up.
That, plus you can use it to trigger samples, loops, midi keyboard, map scales to it. Damn that thing is a creativity machine. If anything thats all I need for a portable system. Launchpad + Laptop.

Anyway the MPK Mini, Synthstation25, all those mini key ones were a total bummer. The pictures look way bigger. I want the money out of this Akai so I'm just gonna spend like $90 on a 49 key oxygen or Korg or something, just cause I need a keyboard. I looked around and there weren't any old casios at the thrift stores.

Prolly gonna get one of the cheaper Focusrites as well, replacing my M-Audio FTP.

But the monitors, holy bajeebus. I brought some filthy dubstep , electro , and complextro that I know like the back of my hand. The difference in the sound of monitors is insane! I found the Mackie MR8 MKII had the best bass frequency response without making it muddy. Not really too bassy either, the wobbles were like a knife grinding on metal, just so damn clean and amazing sounding. GC has them priced at $220 and 4th of July they're gonna be even cheaper. I'm in love with those freaking things. I compared them to every major studio monitor. I listened to KRK 5's, 6's, and 8's and they were all muddy and dirty sounding. The kick drum had all the bass so it was clearly overcompensating. They sound "good" but not clean. Definitely not accurate.

Also for everyone who's been wondering about the Yamaha HS50s, they are pretty much like the new NS10's. I wondered if they were even good for bass heavy genres like dubstep but any track with mids and highs will benefit from those bad boys. You can hear every little distorted bit and byte with those things and it makes it really obvious and easy to identify and fix. Now I know why you gotta have two sets of monitors to A/B with.

I was gonna just get Mackie MR5 MKII's, they were even on sale for really cheap, but compared to the MR8's, wow, the bass response is amazing. They sound amazing too, no overly distorted BVVV BVVV just really really clean low end. The manager said it in a way I really liked, he says you hear the bass about an octave higher through those and if it sounds clean you know it's gonna sound amazing. They were clean as hell. Now I gotta make $440 for the mackies and $240 for the HS50s, I hope they have like 20% off cause my order is gonna be big this time. Between the keyboard, audio interface, and these monitors... oh man.

Just have one question though: Can I use cheap hi-fi speakers to accentuate the garbage in the highs and mids or do I really have to spend $250 on monitors that sound like poop. I know they're not supposed to sound good but I've heard some big name producers just use cheap hi-fi computer speakers and it does the job just fine.

Skrillex made his first EP with just his laptop and headphones for christ-sakes, I feel ridiculous for thinking about spending this much money. If anything, it just inspired me to leave the mastering stage for later in the game and work on just getting the music to have the vibe I want, style, tempo, etc. It just sucks knowing your mixes aren't going to translate well to other systems, but all that audio learnining just inspired me so much. Gonna go jam out some maddddd beats. I don't think I'm gonna get the korg nanokontrol or the launchpad, those are fun toys and useful for live sets but I just wanna make bangers.

I may not need all the toys but I can't shake the feeling that I need a really good set of studio monitors. I'm rethinking spending $600-700 and doing all that accoustic treatment... I just wanna make some beats!

[JTreeZY]

just get whatever's cheapest imo who ever can make the coolest music on the lowst budget is the cooolest. Unless your rich, then go all out I know I would

[drake89]

soo you sold all your gear, just to basically buy different stuff? Doesn't make sense to me, man. The MPK is a beast, though if you can't play the keyboard as in two hands at once- there's no point for a 61 key. The pads are great but who cares, when do you actually use them? You can get an oxygen 49 for around 100, an mpd 18 for 100, and a launchpad for 100. A saffire 6 is less than 150 now. My behringer truth's are probably a bit better than krk's and were 280 used.

I'd quit fussing over your gear, as it seems you had perfectly fine shit. I think you realize that though. If you're really that into making music realize that time spent hounding over gear could be spent making beats. I'm only on here now cause I'm tired and can't be akskd to do anything. I hate to beat a dead horse cause I read every page of his q&a on gearslutz, but RJD2 made 'deadringer' with 1 TT, 1 mixer, and 1mpc. The skrollox example doesn't really phase me as his earlier stuff sounds like turds, imo.

[grooki]

I do like to have a mid keyboard to mess with melodies, easily trial different chords, etc. I can't play the keyboard, but i've now had the midi controller for a few years and if I produce with it off I feel like my hands are chopped off. It's just easier to play different sounds rather than mousing it all in, and it also lets you be more intuitive. I have an M-audio oxygen8, two octaves, 8 knobs, and it's great for me. The only thing I would get if I had a lot of disposable money is a soundcard so that there is no latency, but really that is a luxury that I don't really need at the moment.
I use M-audio bx8a monitors, have had them for 5 years now, and they are great. The sub is ok, you can hear/feel the presence of the low F, which is what I need. I mean, they're not great for feeling the full power of the low end, but in terms of producing, you can hear what is going on down there and construct a well mixed track using them. I could get the sub to go with them, but yeah money is limiting.
Oh yes and the room, well this is a another reason for me not to get a sub for production purposes - my room is not treated. I would love to have a treated room one day, but I find I can mix my tracks reasonably well in the current room.
One thing which is cheap and will transform production experience is dual screens. Get a cheap graphics card with two outputs, another cheap screen and the difference is amazing.
so yeah at the moment all I need is my monitors, midi keyboard, and dual screen.

[deadly_habit]

make sure the guys at GC aren't just after a commission, you can tell if you're semi knowledgeable and if they recommend stuff not in the actual store or that GC doesn't stock
this is coming from a guy who used to be top sales and managed to have regular customers by being a bro most months if people would listen

[NinjaEdit]

On the topic of computer speakers, I really like my Logitech Z323's for $40. They're actually 360 degree sound (with speakers on the back), which I think contributes to the bigness of the sound (bouncing off the walls).

[chopsui]

I should have expected at least one ignorant ranting reply and whover said the mpk has good drum pads was it. shows your knowledge. i dont want the best gear on the planet but if the mpk has garbage drum pads and i can use my dj midi for knobs and faders why wouldnt i invest that wasted mpk money into some monitors? I'm not rich, in fact I'm broke.

Anyway, I'm thinking thinking a cheap focusrite and oxygen 49 would suite me bettei was . 25 Keys isnt enough for playing larger chords. i am leaning more toward a live performance so I'd rather get seperate good pieces of equip than this all in one bs thing.

I'm still undecided on the midi keyboard, no automap i like midi. Ill update later as I'm still researching thanks for the input just wanted to stick it to that ignorant nub.

Is the oxygen 25 good for saving vst midi mappings. in the hardware, not software like automap. i liked how my akai had presets you could easily select, not worth the price imo i look for knobs, transport controls, and quality why would a producer need faders anyway? Thats why the bcf2000 is such a hit cause it remembers song to song your mixer presets. dont have to manually adjust.

I'm doing this work bc i want better control over my daw, why else would anyone buy hardware? I didnt for my first year i bet rant poster ran out to buy his oxygen same day he learned what a cutoff filter was.

[mks]

25 Keys isnt enough for playing larger chords.

Can you please elaborate on this? Thank you, I needed a chuckle today. I know what you mean though.

As far as the fader thing, well they are very useful. MPK's are nice MIDI controllers, though I agree, the pads suck. I like everything else about them. I guess it wasn't for you though.

[wormcode]

Based on how he worded that, I'd guess he meant to say they are NOT great. The MPKs pads are fine though if you mod them, takes 10 minutes. They make some of the best controllers, I'd consider an M-Audio one a downgrade and the Korg controllers are questionable too. Look on how to mod it with tape for the free method, or get these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pad-Sensitivity ... 885wt_1270

NS10s are not good, they are shit and the reason people like them is because if you make something sound good on those they will sound really good on most other speakers. The trick to the NS10s was they were paired with a specific amp in most studios. The HS series are good though, and translate well once you learn them.

Why would you think you need 2 sets of monitors though? Spend as much as you can on 1 pair. I would not recommend high end monitors at all though unless you have a well calibrated room.

I've never heard the skrillex album you mentioned but I doubt it was released straight out of his laptop. Tastes aside, his tunes don't sound good at all though so I'm not sure why you'd use that as a way to judge a good mix. It's just as loud as can be.

BCFs are great, but for the price of course they don't last long. The motors do wear out, but only with abuse. If you use it the way it's meant to be used, it will last a few years.

Take Deadly's word as truth too, half those guys at stores are just trying to get commission, and the other half only listen to indie rock on ipod earbuds. Good friend of mine worked there for years, he made so much off selling Tritons to every wanna be rapper than walked in by pretending to be their friend and give them 'inside info' on how Kelis tracks etc were all made with its sounds.

[chopsui]

Ever heard of tritones?
Ever layered your notes like E4 E5 E6 to get a fuller sound, rather than just playing E major? That's why. I don't want to click it in, thats why I bought this thing.

Why 2 sets of monitors? Yeah I know the NS10 story, props for knowing about the amp as most people dont. The HS50s reveal the garbage in the highs but give very little information about the bass and sub-bass frequencies, which is why most people get a pair of monitors with good bass response or just use a pair of headphones as a second reference monitor. The fact that HS50s dont have much of any bass response means that you could be dialing the bass up wayyyy too high and not notice until you hear it on another system, like I said I don't feel like walking to my car all day.

I've already adjusted the sensitivity on the pads but it is well known they can't be real MPD pads, which is what they said, and was a big sell point for me since I like drumming out my beats instead of clicking them in. I know it takes technique but to me it's worth it and I can come up with more creative drum beats.

ACTUALLY I thing I might keep the AKAI and here's why. I guess I'll use the faders as an extra set of controls, maybe ASDR, dry/wet for reverb, etc. If I get the oxygen I realize it won't hold up as long I'll probably have to replace it so fk it I'll keep the AKAI.

But, the main reason I decided to keep it is this post I found:

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=164575

Basically, instead of hardware mapping or saving each VSTi mapping to it's own preset, you edit the macros so they will always default to the default CC on the akai meaning you don't have to map each VST seperately. Changing the macro will "automatically" map it every time. I just like doing it in the actual hardware controller because then I can just plug it into any computer and control like a beast, but for my home studio use this tip is BEAST!!!!

The MACRO thing is really important and I wish I knew about it sooner, while I wish I had the money for a synth, this pretty much turns my midi controller into every synth.

[outbound]

Arghhh there's a lot of text here.

One thing I will comment on is if you do get an old keyboard with a midi out for a controller then make sure you have a midi in on the audio interface

Good luck on the setup, sorry I can't offer any more advice but the amount of text in here has scared me off if you want any advice though feel free to PM

[drake89]

Awww hell I believe we have all been trolld

[deadly_habit]

Based on how he worded that, I'd guess he meant to say they are NOT great. The MPKs pads are fine though if you mod them, takes 10 minutes. They make some of the best controllers, I'd consider an M-Audio one a downgrade and the Korg controllers are questionable too. Look on how to mod it with tape for the free method, or get these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pad-Sensitivity ... 885wt_1270

NS10s are not good, they are shit and the reason people like them is because if you make something sound good on those they will sound really good on most other speakers. The trick to the NS10s was they were paired with a specific amp in most studios. The HS series are good though, and translate well once you learn them.

Why would you think you need 2 sets of monitors though? Spend as much as you can on 1 pair. I would not recommend high end monitors at all though unless you have a well calibrated room.

I've never heard the skrillex album you mentioned but I doubt it was released straight out of his laptop. Tastes aside, his tunes don't sound good at all though so I'm not sure why you'd use that as a way to judge a good mix. It's just as loud as can be.

BCFs are great, but for the price of course they don't last long. The motors do wear out, but only with abuse. If you use it the way it's meant to be used, it will last a few years.

Take Deadly's word as truth too, half those guys at stores are just trying to get commission, and the other half only listen to indie rock on ipod earbuds. Good friend of mine worked there for years, he made so much off selling Tritons to every wanna be rapper than walked in by pretending to be their friend and give them 'inside info' on how Kelis tracks etc were all made with its sounds.

heh i sold massive to a few people based off chase and status and the brutal electro preset
but yea that's a common tactic

[dublerium]

Hey guys,


Midi Keyboard: Is it neccesary? Right clicking on the keyboard in FL lets me select a ton of chords and scales so I'm pretty comfy just using a computer keyboard, but I really do want a keyboard just so I can explore chord progressions, etc, plus massive doesn't let you use the computer keyboard only a midi keyboard works while I'm tweaking knobs unless I want to infinite loop it... which I don't. That's why I'm thinking I could live with a 25 key but not the AKAI LPK, keys were so tiny I hated that thing.

Really can't be bothered to read the whole thing, but to solve one of the smaller issues regarding the control of external vat in FL. Just click on the wrapper settings in the top left of the plugin and check the button saying 'don't allow keyboard control'. (at least thats what i think it says if memory serves, 3rd box down). This allows you to control synths like massive with computer keys/midi keys.