Creating synths with the sound qualities of real instruments

[zeta]

Basically I want to create synths that don't sound like they're electronic or distinctly synthetic. I don't exactly know how to explain it, but this came about from listening to producers like sbtrkt, Thom Yorke for select Radiohead songs, Flylo, Amon or even Gotye (who reputedly took two years constructing the sounds in Somebody I used to Know to sound 'traditional') and noting that all their synths felt "real" - like they could be actual instruments instead of synths. Whether this be through a human aspect, sampling, keeping the mix dry or good programming I don't know but I'm very interested in this.

I don't necessarily want to emulate instruments. I want to create melodic, prominent sounds and atmospheres with interesting and unique textures yet still feeling as if they could simply be traditional, yet unusual instruments.

I've been shying away from subtractive synth techniques and I've been using zebra 2 and operator, mostly figuring things out through trial and error. FM synthesis seems to be the closest to nailing this "real" feeling, and I haven't try experimenting with sampling yet even though this seems the biggest bet, as sampling is one of my weaker and unfamiliar areas.

Anyone got any pointers?

[Electric_Head]

Additive in combination with FM.
Rhino 2 is my go to for additive sounds.

[VirtualMark]

NI does an interesting synth called Prism, which runs on Reaktor. It uses modal synthesis, which i think is a type of physical modelling. You can get some interesting sounds out of it.

[Fbac]

One pointer would be to look at the differances between "real" instruments and synths.
One thing that comes to mind is velocity.. With a real instrument (say a woodwind) playing it louder,,(blowing harder) doesnt just increase the overall volume, but also distorts the sound slightly. (some ideas like that should help you)

Saw the gotye documentary on mirrors and thought it interesting how he sampled that harp and then played it back on a keyboard giving a unique sound (as the harp would normally be played with mulitple strings at the same time)

[NinjaEdit]

Try romplers?

There is a free version of Prism called Mikroprism.

Try having the velocity also change the cut-off frequency and release.

Humanise the performance with imperfect rhythm and velocity.

[wormcode]

Look into 'physical modelling synthesis'.
Chromaphone is amazing for this http://www.applied-acoustics.com/chromaphone/overview/
I think you'd really like it.

[Perej]

Basically I want to create synths that don't sound like they're electronic or distinctly synthetic. I don't exactly know how to explain it, but this came about from listening to producers like sbtrkt, Thom Yorke for select Radiohead songs, Flylo, Amon or even Gotye (who reputedly took two years constructing the sounds in Somebody I used to Know to sound 'traditional') and noting that all their synths felt "real" - like they could be actual instruments instead of synths. Whether this be through a human aspect, sampling, keeping the mix dry or good programming I don't know but I'm very interested in this.

I don't necessarily want to emulate instruments. I want to create melodic, prominent sounds and atmospheres with interesting and unique textures yet still feeling as if they could simply be traditional, yet unusual instruments.

I've been shying away from subtractive synth techniques and I've been using zebra 2 and operator, mostly figuring things out through trial and error. FM synthesis seems to be the closest to nailing this "real" feeling, and I haven't try experimenting with sampling yet even though this seems the biggest bet, as sampling is one of my weaker and unfamiliar areas.

Anyone got any pointers?

didn't Sbtrkt say he used a lot of Logics built in synths for some of his prominent remixes and things?

Anyway also interested in this.

[dubesteppe]

i found this one called string theory. its free! http://www.ugoaudio.com/plug-ins/string-theory

[Terpit]

Do you mean like the jazz bit in silkie - step aside? I thought that was just sampled

[jrisreal]

Make a lot of minute modulations...the biggest difference i can see between instruments and synths is that synths generally have a static tone, while instruments have a tone thats constantly changing depending on the person playing.

[zeta]

Yeah I've made some very nice sounds in operator and zebra 2, using the FM synthesis options to give otherwise static tones some dirt and a bit of squelchiness in them as well as some unfamiliar tones. I'm still learning the ropes of zebra tho so I expect it'll take a little bit before I'm more familiar with using it.

I suppose creating sounds like this require something adding a physical quality to the sounds, which is why I've been coming close with FM stuff - adding a metallic 'twang' or rattle to the sounds to give it some physical presence.

[3za]

Don't think like a tree, be a tree

[jrisreal]

Here's a quick, sort-of realistic sytrus patch I just whipped up.
http://www.mediafire.com/?p44u4ki18d4a7tt

[zeta]

Quickly googled 'physical modelling synthesis' - oh wow, so there's an entire section of synthesis devoted to what I want to achieve?

I'm a little reluctant to get any new synths since I'm perfectly happy with what I have, but @wormcode, Chromaphone looks amazing! And apparently it's by the guys who did the collision synth in Ableton, only a bigger and better version which is awesome since I never got past the interface of collision lol

Hmm, it looks like zebra 2 does have the capability for physical modelling. I'm browsing through what it entails and zebra 2 has comb modules - in addition to the FM capability. Man, I've only *just* gotten a copy of zebra 2 and already amazed at what it offers.

[IELMusic94]

Physical modelling synthesis is one of those things that sounds good on paper, but doesn't always yield good results (at least, that's been my experience with physical modelling synths thus far). As was mentioned before, lots of modulation is key to organic sounding instruments, but it's also important to remember all the little nuances of physical instruments that synths usually don't have, and thinking of ways to add those missing elements in. In addition to linking velocity to various parameters, I find it's also good to make use of modulation and amp envelopes to give the synth more movement. A lot of real instruments have little noises they make as they are played (the strings of a guitar, the hammers in a piano, the breath of a horn player, etc.), so modulating things like the filter cutoff or resonance, noise oscillators, FM operators, etc. at the beginning of each note, can give it more "physicality", so to speak. In addition, it's important to have a good amp envelope, without too much sustain, and dialing in some attack and release, because a real instrument rarely has any kind of heavy sustain (not any acoustic instruments anyhow). Also, I find putting some slow, subtle LFO modulation on some of the more sensitive parameters really helps, that way no two notes are exactly the same. Finally, I find sometimes layering several patches together can make a better sound. For instance, maybe have one patch that focuses on the attack noise, and one or 2 others that make up the body of the sound.

[wormcode]

That's true, it doesn't always work out but I think AAS did an amazing job. It's a bit pricey was my only complaint. It's fully capable of normal synth sounds too though.
@zeta, yeah they did a few of the included things in Ableton Live. AAS Ultra Analog is the full version of Analog included in Live, and Electric (also used physical modelling), as well as 1 or 2 others. Check out their free 'Swatches' too.

[zeta]

Wow... been playing around with Chromaphone demo and it sounds great! However, a lot of people on other forums claim it's simply a repackaged Collision. I've got Collision as part of the Ableton Suite but never used it. In the interests of saving money, I think I'll make myself learn how to use Collision first.

This is the problem with Ableton I've found. They're so focused on minimalism and condensing stuff that all their in-built synth interfaces are so squashed and look daunting