Cymbals

[PillowFight]

Im having trouble getting my cymbals to remain constant in my out front sections of a track, I feel like they're just dying out too early, and they're not hitting the upper end frequencies like I'd like them too. I've tried soaking them in reverb, but this just makes them feel weak and atmospheric, and I tried loading them into a sampler to get them pitched higher but that just makes them shorter and weaker as well.

Does anyone have any tips regarding cymbals, maybe layering or something? Or do y'all make your own samples with custom attacks and releases?

tl;dr my cymbals sound like shit, and I have no idea how to go about processing them so they don't

[invisibled]

cut out all low and mid freq from the cymbals so it's just a nice shimmering top. reverb shouldn't be too too thick... just try to imagine what kind of a space you want to put across in the mix. your cymbals in the song sound ok... if you brought them up in the mix a bit and had them fade out sooner i think it would mix in nicer.

also, if things really arn't working, start from srcatch, listen to the sample with no fx slowly process whatever you need to but always remember what kind of a sound your going for, and don't stray from that.

[PillowFight]

Yeah I think I'm just putting on too much reverb. Thanks for the advice! I'll mess around with the cymbal levels

[mthrfnk]

Cut the mids/low end as mentioned, also you could cut or de-ess the top end slightly (loud high frequencies will tend to shred peoples ears if it gets played out loud).
Some cymbals can have undesirable harmonics so instead of getting a nice splash you get a nasty clang, a tight notch EQ will help you there to remove those.
Then finally some compression or transient shaping can help boost or tame the dynamics.

I find layering and sometimes panning samples also gives a good feel in the mix. Panning helps them stand out a little, and is more natural to how a real drum kit would sound.

[PillowFight]

on the subject of panning, do you pan the cymbals as if you were sitting behind the drumset or as if you were the listener opposite from the drumset? Cuz that always confused me. Like the hihats would be coming from the left, if you are a right handed drummer behind a kit, but if you're an observer they would be coming from your right if you were observing a right handed drummer etc.

also that notch EQing worked a charm, i was getting WAY too many of those gross harmonics carrying through on my reverb

[mthrfnk]

on the subject of panning, do you pan the cymbals as if you were sitting behind the drumset or as if you were the listener opposite from the drumset? Cuz that always confused me. Like the hihats would be coming from the left, if you are a right handed drummer behind a kit, but if you're an observer they would be coming from your right if you were observing a right handed drummer etc.

also that notch EQing worked a charm, i was getting WAY too many of those gross harmonics carrying through on my reverb

Honestly I don't even think in that much detail or technicality, I just do what sounds good - a lot of times I have the same hats or rides panning different sides on each hit

[outbound]

I always like to layer cymbals and pan them out.

EQ is dependant on track material but generally lose the mids and boost up in the highs.

If they're too harsh try de-essing.

If they are ending too soon either use a longer cymbal sample. Orrrr use compression which will bring up the tail of the cymbal and make it seem longer.

[nameless133]

You don't need to EQ or any tricks if choose your samples right. I usually pan them and add some widening. I was afraid of it will cause phase problems but I always check my mix in mono and 98% of times I work with mono samples so it's not effected the phase integrity.

[PillowFight]

These are some pro tips, I feel like I was thinking way too inside-the-box on this. My sample selection is pretty much shit atm unfortunately, so I'm stuck with processing some not so perfect cymbals, but just panning and layering them with some light compression has changed everything drastically

[mthrfnk]

You don't need to EQ or any tricks if choose your samples right. I usually pan them and add some widening. I was afraid of it will cause phase problems but I always check my mix in mono and 98% of times I work with mono samples so it's not effected the phase integrity.

Phase problems shouldn't affect cymbals.
Also imo you should always EQ, even if it's only 20Hz/20kHz cuts, it's just good practice; however cymbals in particular (as I mentioned previously) can start to become shrill/piercing as you track progresses through mixing & mastering (even if you choose the best samples)- hence I like to roll of the real high end to stop them shredding the fuck out of peoples ears.

[Augment]

You don't need to EQ or any tricks if choose your samples right. I usually pan them and add some widening. I was afraid of it will cause phase problems but I always check my mix in mono and 98% of times I work with mono samples so it's not effected the phase integrity.

Phase problems shouldn't affect cymbals.
Also imo you should always EQ, even if it's only 20Hz/20kHz cuts, it's just good practice; however cymbals in particular (as I mentioned previously) can start to become shrill/piercing as you track progresses through mixing & mastering (even if you choose the best samples)- hence I like to roll of the real high end to stop them shredding the fuck out of peoples ears.

Also, looking for the perfect sample is a waste of time if you can achieve just as great a sound with a not so perfect sample and a bit of eq

[mthrfnk]

You don't need to EQ or any tricks if choose your samples right. I usually pan them and add some widening. I was afraid of it will cause phase problems but I always check my mix in mono and 98% of times I work with mono samples so it's not effected the phase integrity.

Phase problems shouldn't affect cymbals.
Also imo you should always EQ, even if it's only 20Hz/20kHz cuts, it's just good practice; however cymbals in particular (as I mentioned previously) can start to become shrill/piercing as you track progresses through mixing & mastering (even if you choose the best samples)- hence I like to roll of the real high end to stop them shredding the fuck out of peoples ears.

Also, looking for the perfect sample is a waste of time if you can achieve just as great a sound with a not so perfect sample and a bit of eq

[skimpi]

on the subject of panning, do you pan the cymbals as if you were sitting behind the drumset or as if you were the listener opposite from the drumset? Cuz that always confused me. Like the hihats would be coming from the left, if you are a right handed drummer behind a kit, but if you're an observer they would be coming from your right if you were observing a right handed drummer etc.

also that notch EQing worked a charm, i was getting WAY too many of those gross harmonics carrying through on my reverb

your making electronic music man, it doesnt really matter, do some mad panning shit if you really wanna