Multiband Soft Clipping vs Compression

[azuk]

So recently I've been using Soft Clipping and Waveshaping instead of Compression on my Kicks, but after some quick searches, I've seen no one who actually does this.
Is there a reason no one does this?

[mthrfnk]

I've started using WaveshaperCM on so much, including drums - sounds good.

[SunkLo]

People have been doing this since tape.

[azuk]

Can you waveshape in noise to a kick? I've been trying to, because then I can split the highs out and then saturate/distort it.

[SunkLo]

Wha?

[azuk]

Waveshaping alters the direct waveform, so I want to be able to add noise this way, instead of reverse sidechaining a tuned noise sample to add that noisy feel.

[SunkLo]

You can just draw really radical curves on the waveshaper and it'll sound distorted to the point of noise.

[claudedefaren]

Soft clipping adds minor distortion depending on how far you're pushing it. I used to do it on everything with ableton saturator set to digital clip, but found that it made everything have really harsh transients in an unpleasant way.

i used to do it because i wanted to keep as much punch in my drums as possible but still limit them for peak control. abletons limiter is just awful. i tried some other limiters, found Pro-L, and never looked back.

now instead of using saturator for soft clipping, i use Pro-L, and have saved myself a "drum bus punch" preset that always gets the job done.

[bouncingfish]

Soft clipping adds minor distortion depending on how far you're pushing it. I used to do it on everything with ableton saturator set to digital clip, but found that it made everything have really harsh transients in an unpleasant way.

i used to do it because i wanted to keep as much punch in my drums as possible but still limit them for peak control. abletons limiter is just awful. i tried some other limiters, found Pro-L, and never looked back.

now instead of using saturator for soft clipping, i use Pro-L, and have saved myself a "drum bus punch" preset that always gets the job done.

A pro-l preset or a whole bus preset?
If it's a whole bus-preset/channelstripsetting, what else do you have in it?

[Artie_Fufkin]

I use very mild soft clipping with about a 50/50 wet/dry mix for certain things, including some drums sounds.

[azuk]

I wrote a Soft Limiter in FLowstone that layers a soft clipped, hard clipped, and dry waveform and then averages them out. Is there anything I can do to decrease the amount of distortion? I also decrease the gain at~1 db per stage to prevent internal clipping then compressing it up later.

[SunkLo]

I used to do it on everything with ableton saturator set to digital clip, but found that it made everything have really harsh transients in an unpleasant way.

I'm not surprised. Digital clipping is the opposite of soft clipping.

If you guys want less distortion, clip it less or clip it softer. You can run a few in series and put filters between them to attenuate the upper harmonics that get added. Or use a multiband or run it parallel with the dry signal. But ultimately what you're doing is distorting the signal, so you can't really have something clipped hard but still sound like it's not distorted. It's like baking a pie at 670 for 3 hours but wanting it to taste like it was cooked at 350 for 45 minutes. Just don't have it so damn hot and it won't taste burnt.

[claudedefaren]

Soft clipping adds minor distortion depending on how far you're pushing it. I used to do it on everything with ableton saturator set to digital clip, but found that it made everything have really harsh transients in an unpleasant way.

i used to do it because i wanted to keep as much punch in my drums as possible but still limit them for peak control. abletons limiter is just awful. i tried some other limiters, found Pro-L, and never looked back.

now instead of using saturator for soft clipping, i use Pro-L, and have saved myself a "drum bus punch" preset that always gets the job done.

A pro-l preset or a whole bus preset?
If it's a whole bus-preset/channelstripsetting, what else do you have in it?

No, I made a Pro-L preset for the drum bus.
I usually throw the Glue or another compressor before that on the bus. And any effects to modulate (filters, etc) if need be. Nothing special.

[claudedefaren]

I used to do it on everything with ableton saturator set to digital clip, but found that it made everything have really harsh transients in an unpleasant way.

I'm not surprised. Digital clipping is the opposite of soft clipping.

I noticed no difference setting it to Digital Clip with Saturator or using the Soft Clipper in the Glue Compressor (Ableton's). When set to Analog Clip, the signal is not AS harsh, but still pretty harsh -- it's not analog, in reality. It also clips/distorts sooner when set to that mode.

So unless you're talking about some other kind of soft clipping that the Glue and Saturator (Digital Clip) (which are the same thing) don't provide, I don't understand where you're coming from.

[bouncingfish]

Soft clipping adds minor distortion depending on how far you're pushing it. I used to do it on everything with ableton saturator set to digital clip, but found that it made everything have really harsh transients in an unpleasant way.

i used to do it because i wanted to keep as much punch in my drums as possible but still limit them for peak control. abletons limiter is just awful. i tried some other limiters, found Pro-L, and never looked back.

now instead of using saturator for soft clipping, i use Pro-L, and have saved myself a "drum bus punch" preset that always gets the job done.

A pro-l preset or a whole bus preset?
If it's a whole bus-preset/channelstripsetting, what else do you have in it?

No, I made a Pro-L preset for the drum bus.
I usually throw the Glue or another compressor before that on the bus. And any effects to modulate (filters, etc) if need be. Nothing special.

Cool, thanks.

[mromgwtf]

distortion ≠ compression.

[SunkLo]

I used to do it on everything with ableton saturator set to digital clip, but found that it made everything have really harsh transients in an unpleasant way.

I'm not surprised. Digital clipping is the opposite of soft clipping.

I noticed no difference setting it to Digital Clip with Saturator or using the Soft Clipper in the Glue Compressor (Ableton's). When set to Analog Clip, the signal is not AS harsh, but still pretty harsh -- it's not analog, in reality. It also clips/distorts sooner when set to that mode.

So unless you're talking about some other kind of soft clipping that the Glue and Saturator (Digital Clip) (which are the same thing) don't provide, I don't understand where you're coming from.

Just hit it less hot? Or use a waveshaper to dial in a softer curve? If you're getting harsh distortion, obviously you're too far on the hard side of the soft/hard continuum.

distortion ≠ compression.

I disagree. Compression is a form of distortion and distortion produces compression, so fundamentally they are the same process with different application. Granted, compression has the timing component with the A/R stages and distortion is meant to sound more obvious, but they don't differ all that much really.

[mromgwtf]

distortion ≠ compression.

I disagree. Compression is a form of distortion and distortion produces compression, so fundamentally they are the same process with different application. Granted, compression has the timing component with the A/R stages and distortion is meant to sound more obvious, but they don't differ all that much really.

I disagree also. Compression changes the volume of the signal over time, where distortion modifies the wave itself. If you refer to wikipedia:

Harmonic distortion adds overtones that are whole number multiples of a sound wave's frequencies.

Soft clipping is a harmonic distortion. Compression doesn't alter the harmonic content of the signal.
So again, distortion ≠ compression.

[Triphosphate]

distortion ≠ compression.

I disagree. Compression is a form of distortion and distortion produces compression, so fundamentally they are the same process with different application. Granted, compression has the timing component with the A/R stages and distortion is meant to sound more obvious, but they don't differ all that much really.

I disagree also. Compression changes the volume of the signal over time, where distortion modifies the wave itself. If you refer to wikipedia:

Harmonic distortion adds overtones that are whole number multiples of a sound wave's frequencies.

Soft clipping is a harmonic distortion. Compression doesn't alter the harmonic content of the signal.
So again, distortion ≠ compression.

I disagree also... also...

Compression does not alter the harmonic content of a signal, but Soft clipping does compress a signal. With most distortion units, when you drive the unit you're bringing down a threshold which you can make up by increasing the signal... that's basically compression.

Compressors, limiters, and clippers (soft or hard) are all essentially implementations of the same technique, with different parameters. A compressor is the most general term, and many compressors can be configured to perform limiting. The key parameters are:

Type: peak, RMS, etc. - there are various ways a compressor may measure the amplitude of an audio signal
Threshold: amplitude at which the compressor engages
Ratio: amount by which signals exceeding the threshold are attenuated, 1:1 leaves signal intact, 4:1 reduces amplitude above the threshold by a factor of four, infinite:1 does not allow any amplitude above the threshold
Attack: speed with which compressor engages once the threshold is exceeded
Release: speed with which the compressor disengages once signal falls below threshold
Knee: the shape of the transition from the compressor's inactive to active stages (a soft knee is curved and begins below the threshold, a hard knee takes effect immediately at the threshold, and applies no compression below) - this can have a big impact on the audible transparency of the compression


Now, to address the specific tools in question:

Compressor: a general implementation of the above, most compressors offer controls over some or all of these parameters in various ranges - different compressors usually have different algorithms for the knee
Limiter: a true hard limiter measures peak amplitude, has a threshold of 0db, an infinite compression ratio, and no attack, release, or knee - any signal at or below the threshold is unchanged, any signal above the threshold becomes equal to the threshold
Soft-clipper: also measures peak amplitude and has a threshold of 0db with an infinite compression ratio, but uses a soft, curved knee, and potentially a very short attack or release - like a limiter, it is still impossible for any signal to exceed the threshold, but the clipper engages the signal as it is approaching the threshold, rounding off the limiting

(http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-differ ... ft-clipper)

There is compression and limiting in every overdrive, distortion, fuzz, squash, saturation or crunch circuit. There is no way around it. To explain why, we need to first understand compression and limiting...

...Typically, a fuzz (overdrive, distortion, crunch, saturation, squash, et al) will have a gain stage to amplify low level signals and a pair of diodes to clip the highly amplified signal. This has the effect of sounding like a compressor-limiter since low level signals are amplified and signals greater than the threshold are hard limited.

When you have the diodes from the signal to ground, the limiting has a very high ratio because of the log response of the diode conduction. It takes a lot of signal increase to raise the output once the threshold is exceeded (oh, you didn't know that the 0.7v is not a hard and fast limit?). Diodes in the feedback loop of an opamp (non-inverting) also have a very high limiting ratio, but not as high as diodes to ground because the maximum gain reduction of the opamp feedback loop is unity, or gain = 1.

Low level signals are boosted because of the gain of the fuzz. If the gain is low, you get a low compression ratio and if it is high the ratio effect is higher. The net effect of the limiting of the diodes with the low level gain is to reduce the dynamic range of the output signal, which sounds like compression with limiting...

(http://www.muzique.com/compress.htm)

You're confusing "compression ≠ distortion" for "distortion ≠ compression"... Compression does not cause distortion, but distortion most definitely does cause compression.

And for that matter, the above statement is not necessarily true, as pumping can be considered a form of distortion as well.

[SunkLo]

Compression doesn't alter the harmonic content of the signal.

Yes it does. Not on a static basis like a standard distortion unit but it is fundamentally doing the same thing.