Does anyone else have similar problems with vocals?

[Saol]

Well, first of all I apologise if I've posted this in the wrong category. But anyway, I'm just gonna say I've been producing for like a year now, on and off but I'm still a bit of a noob. lol I also don't have any musical background and have never really learnt theory (which I think I should) or anything. But when I try to make a track with vocals I have trouble finding the right notes to fit with the vocals and it just never sounds right. So basically what I'm asking is:

a) Does anyone else struggle with this?
b) Is there anyway I could get better at this?

Thanks

[GregLongman]

Yes and yes.

The best thing you can do IMO is grab a piano track alongside your vocal and try and play the notes the vocals are hitting. Once you've found those notes (which can be very difficult) try and find the root note and then play with a chord sequence.

If you struggle with the musicality side, stick a spectrum analyser on the vocal and see what frequency it hits and write down the notes (Ableton gives you the frequency and the note).

Both methods take a long time, but it gets quicker once you've done it a few times.

Completely alternatively google "what key is -insert track name & artist- in?" And then google what notes are in the stated key.

Ooor, load the track into your DJ software if applicable, and usually that will tell you the key, then google "what notes are in... Key".

[Saol]

I'm glad I'm not the only one haha

That sounds like a good idea, thanks!

[robwan]

The most simple way without musical knowledge is to experiment and put your vocal on a loop, then while it is playing just keep putting different bass/chord notes underneath it until you find one which sounds 'right'. Go through all the notes on the piano roll, one or will usually have a sweet spot and sound amazing.

With a little bit musical knowledge (the amount you could learn in a few days) you can do quite a bit more though. Once you understand key and find out what key your vocals are in, you then know exactly what notes have potential to work with them.

There is also a pretty neat trick you can do, I don't what daw you use, but I use FL studio and there is a plugin called newtone, I can put the vocal wav file into it and it will break the whole think apart giving me a piano roll interface of all the notes (this helps to work the key too if you can't)

you can then simply chuck all these notes as a template (ghost notes/no volume) behind my piano roll for my synths and start experimenting with my bass and melody, this is fun.

I generally start with the bass/chords and usually you will find the vocal becomes the melody.

Using your ear and really feeling the music is key (I know that sounds gay lol) , but some musical knowledge can help I believe.


also, once you learn about key you can then change the key of your vocals if you need to by shifting the pitch of them up or down 100 cemitones (100 cemitones up will shift you up a key)

[mthrfnk]

Yes I have trouble with this a lot... the packs I use are usually vocals tuned to Am or Fm, as a result I tend to repitch to my key or sometimes even force the repitch to the main lead melody of my track, if it sounds weird I resort to chopping the vocals up and make them into a pattern (vs. actual lyrics).

I very rarely adjust a song to fit a vocal (unless it's a remix with vocals) as vocals are usually one of the last things I add, to "polish" off a song... although if you start a song with a vocal it would be beneficial to map out the key and melody it follows. There's various software that could do this automatically, melodyne springs to mind although it's pricey - you could just trace it out on a keyboard if you have the patience (and/or skill haha).

[zosomagik]

If you dont know the key of your vocals, download something like rapid evolution. And then I would read and learn about the circle of fifths, it's a very useful tool for know what notes are in what key quickly.

[Artie_Fufkin]

b) Is there anyway I could get better at this?

Just learn the major scale intervals. As someone said before, find the notes on an instrument you know how to play to figure out the notes and then find which major scale the vocal fits into. If you don't want to spend time learning a lot of music theory, at least just learn those patterns of intervals.

[Eat Bass]

i have a question. what if yuu have a vocal loop and you don't know the bpm and can't find it? or what if it doesn't really have a bpm if its not in time? whats the best method? chop it and loop it in time?

also, im new to logic x so havent used flex pitch much, is it easy enough to change the vocal notes using that? or would something like kontakt work?

sorry for thread jacking OP, but i figure this will be useful for you too.

[Artie_Fufkin]

i have a question. what if yuu have a vocal loop and you don't know the bpm and can't find it? or what if it doesn't really have a bpm if its not in time? whats the best method? chop it and loop it in time?

also, im new to logic x so havent used flex pitch much, is it easy enough to change the vocal notes using that? or would something like kontakt work?

sorry for thread jacking OP, but i figure this will be useful for you too.

I'd slice it like a drum loop and play the slices. If that doesn't work, you could try timestretching. I've heard melodyne is good for timing issues like that.

[Eat Bass]

i have a question. what if yuu have a vocal loop and you don't know the bpm and can't find it? or what if it doesn't really have a bpm if its not in time? whats the best method? chop it and loop it in time?

also, im new to logic x so havent used flex pitch much, is it easy enough to change the vocal notes using that? or would something like kontakt work?

sorry for thread jacking OP, but i figure this will be useful for you too.

I'd slice it like a drum loop and play the slices. If that doesn't work, you could try timestretching. I've heard melodyne is good for timing issues like that.

Yeah that's what I did. I have logic though and flex pitch will do the trick for me. I was just wanting some opinions on how others have handled it.

Still new to flex pitch though and can't figure out how to get it to recognize all the notes in the sample and then tune them. It's only recognizing some of the notes.