The laws of an unlicensed sample

j.d.b. · Post by **j.d.b.** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:30 pm

just out of curiosity for the furure

what are the laws on unlicensed samples getting pressed/released etc

i heard its 500 copies on white label is the limit you can distirbute

anyone know the actual law?

product · Post by **product** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:00 pm

i'm sure the law is NONE

but when you can't prove who produced/distributed the tune there's no one to pursue

baddie · Post by **baddie** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:04 pm

Product wrote:i'm sure the law is NONE

but when you can't prove who produced/distributed the tune there's no one to pursue

fushimi · Post by **fushimi** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:34 am

Don't ask don't tell innit. Obviously people can prove who produced a white label in about half an hour with a lawyer and a couple of phone calls, but if it's just a scene thing nobody's bothered, and if it blows up the major label will be getting the person to do an authorised remix.

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:47 am

Fushimi wrote:Don't ask don't tell innit. Obviously people can prove who produced a white label in about half an hour with a lawyer and a couple of phone calls, but if it's just a scene thing nobody's bothered, and if it blows up the major label will be getting the person to do an authorised remix.

the argument from the major label side is always going to be justifying their legal costs to fight with producer XYZ over the sample usage. just to file a cease and desist letter with a lawyer....you're talking about £1k or around that. no ones going to take you to court over 500 whites, but they might consider it if you sell more than let's say 1500.

j.d.b. · Post by **j.d.b.** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:50 pm

aye i figured if they couldnt catch you there wudnt be hassle but i wer jus wondering wat the actual law were

cheers

dutty yuppie · Post by **dutty yuppie** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:04 pm

Labels should have in-house lawyers to send the cease and desist letter first - meaning no additional cost to them.

j.d.b. · Post by **j.d.b.** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:47 pm

Dutty Yuppie wrote:Labels should have in-house lawyers to send the cease and desist letter first - meaning no additional cost to them.

thats annoying

thesynthesist · Post by **thesynthesist** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:03 pm

try talking to the artist, dude.

or... dont use unlicensed samples...

cogent · Post by **cogent** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:36 am

I'd still love to know how Shitmat - Killa Babylon Cutz got released... I can't believe all the samples on that were cleared...

Still a quality album!!!

jnthn · Post by **jnthn** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:31 pm

Cogent wrote:I'd still love to know how Shitmat - Killa Babylon Cutz got released... I can't believe all the samples on that were cleared...

Still a quality album!!!

so far as I know he didn't.

he tried to get it pressed somewhere, but the fab ran it through some audio processor and identified all these unlicensed samples so refused. so he just get it done somewhere else. (but i might be getting this confused with his 'hang the dj')

i don't think labels care about unlicensed sampling because its either so small no one hears it or it kicks off and they can break out the lawyers and get a cut for zero effort.

j.d.b. · Post by **j.d.b.** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:18 am

thesynthesist wrote: or... dont use unlicensed samples...

weirdo

spooKs · Post by **spooKs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:28 am

shitmat? clearing his samples? that'll be the day

gravious · Post by **gravious** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:08 pm

J.D.B. wrote:just out of curiosity for the furure

what are the laws on unlicensed samples getting pressed/released etc

i heard its 500 copies on white label is the limit you can distirbute

anyone know the actual law?

All unliscenced sampling in published music is illegal. Simple as. If you are using such samples, your press can be ten records, and you can still get done. the law is on the sample owners side.

As said above though, high legal costs, low pressing numbers, ignorance of the illegal usage (by the sample owners/MCPS) and apathy all mean that you are very unlikely to get done for it!

Also, sampling a record could theoretically cause interest in the original amongst a new audience, so I suspect that sometimes such infringements are just ignored (especially when little money/profit is involved)

daft cunt · Post by **daft cunt** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:32 pm

About the legal costs... let's say you're being taken to the court, should you be found guilty, aren't you supposed to pay the complainant's expenses as well?

Anyway, the omnipresence of sampling in underground electronic music suggests there ain't many cases - also I heard about a couple.

thesynthesist · Post by **thesynthesist** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:21 pm

pssh, dont let the lack of news about the topic make you think litigation doesnt happen.

legal expenses could be the least of your worries.

You will be responsible for all lost revenue due to the sampling. meaning you will have to pay for every record you sold, and if they try to show that it cost them sales (say you put out a better remix than the original) then you will be responsible for damages.

This isnt a road to tread on lightly folks. People have been imprisoned for willfully flaunting the law, and even if thats not on the table, having your gear repossessed and shit, isnt worth it.

Fuck, even thinking and worrying about if you MIGHT get caught isnt worth it.

thesynthesist · Post by **thesynthesist** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:22 pm

One exception is HipHop, occasionally, as they will put out all kinds of acapellas and mixtapes to promote. They are probably least likely to fuck with you...

But if they do, better watch out!

slowlygoingdeaf · Post by **slowlygoingdeaf** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:33 pm

thesynthesist wrote:One exception is HipHop, occasionally, as they will put out all kinds of acapellas and mixtapes to promote. They are probably least likely to fuck with you...

But if they do, better watch out!

check out what kno (producer from cunninlynguists) had to say about sampling in hiphop, at least for an underground group:

If you know anything about indie rap, you know that we do it with little or no return on our time...yes, as cliched as it sounds we "do it for the love". Most of these samples are not cleared because A: there isn't the money for it, and B: the smaller artists themselves have little or no control over their publishing and usage rights and when you approach these smaller labels about actually clearing a sample, they are so out of touch with the reality of the situation all they see is dollar signs. They think me sampling their artist is about to bring them Dr. Dre money, so they charge between 30-70,000 dollars. The budget for our first 3 record combined doesn't equal that! Even if we DID pay, there are so many loopholes contractually because sampling didn't spring up until way after these contracts were in ink, the person who had the least to do with creating this beautiful music is the one keeping 100% of the clearance fee. I have actually reached out to artists directly when I could find contact info to discuss what it is I do, and they have been cordial almost 100% of the time because they understand GOOD music's intent is to simply make people feel something. Fuck the middle man.

cant imagine much samples are cleared in dubstep at all, but i could be wrong.

pablex · Post by **pablex** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:43 pm

weren't the shut up & dance guy taken to court in the early nineties and nailed big time as an example for the rest of uncleared sample using producers?

just jim · Post by **just jim** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:58 pm

Pablex wrote:weren't the shut up & dance guy taken to court in the early nineties and nailed big time as an example for the rest of uncleared sample using producers?

yeah, i'm pretty sure it was over "raving, i'm raving" the tune that sampled grammy winner/tossbag marc cohn.

The laws of an unlicensed sample

The laws of an unlicensed sample

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