Kick / Bass Layering

[itsHAZED]

I want my kicks and bass to sound like this:

http://www.soundcloud.com/enzopicardi/h ... tdown-Enzo

- a punchy kick, with the sub bass coming out of it smoothly, giving it that 'hard hitting 808' type bass.

In that track, is that just a normal kick with the sub layered right under it? How do you make sure the frequencies aren't clashing?

I have tried countless different ways of going about this.

- side chaining the kick into the bass.
- cutting a kick under 70hz, boosting it hard at 100hz, and cutting the bass above 80hz - so that they kind of fit together.

But none of these options are getting me the results I want.

I've read tons of posts but just can't get it sounding like I want it.

Is it just a full EQ'd kick sample with the bass layered underneath. Perhaps with the attack pushed back on the bass? (I make my 808 style bass in Massive.)

Thanks guys.

[itsHAZED]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9fj3k8q9kt9r ... k-Bass.wav

Here is a screenshot of my kick/bass setting's an a .wav for reference. What am I doing wrong here guys?

[Crimsonghost]

LP 808/909 kick at 80-100hz + some sort of "clicky" kick HP at 80+hz.

If you can't figure it out, you just have to keep working on it. Sounds simple in theory, but actually takes some time f messing around with the right combo of kicks to make it work.

[efence]

How about just find an 808 that sounds like that one and load it in a sampler where you can control pitch...

[itsHAZED]

LP 808/909 kick at 80-100hz + some sort of "clicky" kick HP at 80+hz.

If you can't figure it out, you just have to keep working on it. Sounds simple in theory, but actually takes some time f messing around with the right combo of kicks to make it work.

I do low pass my '808' type sub at 80hz, so I just need to find a kick drum sample I see fitting, hi pass it above 80hz and boost it around 100hz probably? I always forget that the bass that you hear is 80-100hz. Then I could make a copy of that kick drum and remove the hi pass for when I'm using the kick without the bass underneath?

Yes, you're so right. It's simple to say do this and that, do it until it sounds good. But I've been sitting down messing around trying to get it just how I want it for hours on end. Maybe I'm just too picky!

[ehbes]

Idk I usually just write a baseline that doesn't interfere with the kick pattern...

[cent4ur]

I give it my go. I used to have this issue at first.
I see you are following strict guidelines like boost kick at 100, roll of at 80. Each kick has different peak frequencies. Make use of a free analyser to get visual representation. You might find that the kick's apex is at 80hz not 100.
Second most important thing is LEVELS. Get the levels right and this thing should work with any combination of kick+sub as long as no phasing occurs.

I listened to your example. Things sound good. I don't see the problem.

[LUNCHPADDLE]

make the attack on the underlying sub slower so that it fades in just after the kick when theyre triggered at the same time.. if that makes sense?

Soundcloud

^ check the sub/kick layering in this tune of mine. i did it with this and it works nicely.

[nowaysj]

I want my kicks and bass to sound like this:

http://www.soundcloud.com/enzopicardi/h ... tdown-Enzo

You want to take a thing of beauty and art and subtle grace and just shiiiiiiiiiiit on it?


If you're going to do the the hp/lp thing, assign a knob to the cutoff freq of each of those filters, set up a midi program to play both samples at the same time, and just loop that shit and twist both those knobs until it gets right. I recommend a subby long 808 with a high and dry 808. Eyes Ears

Parallel the high kick out into some type of saturation/distortion, filter and blend that in.

Sample that then shape the whole thing with a slow attack quick release compressor with a limiter on top, again all EARS .

Another think you can do is just use a really toppy kick and work with a flexible gate. You can try keying the long 808 to the toppy kick, set the gate so it keys with a slow attack and long release. OR use the toppy kick to gate the long 808 with a fast attack and a fast release, so the toppy kick, and actually here, it can be a more full spectrum kick with sub and tops, gates out the front side of the long subby 808.

Fuck there are like 10 other ways to do it.

The best, as mentioned above: Find one clean example of what you like and sample it. Now you are done, and you can spend erhs actually making a beat or song.

This post is made with the best of intentions, if not the best of attitudes.

EARS

[LUNCHPADDLE]

^ well said.

inexperienced producers (imho) learn more through experimentation/trial & error rather than asking people how to copy another sound..

beyond the advice thats been offered by myself and others, im hard pressed to be able to say anything else.

[itsHAZED]

So I've been keeping my low pass on my '808' around 80hz, and layering with various kick drums that hit hard around 80-100hz, but sort of leaving the bottom end of the kicks in tact, and making room for them by pushing the attack of the bass back. Seems to be working well!

[LUNCHPADDLE]

glad its working for you man! is the track youre talking about the one in your signature?

[itsHAZED]

glad its working for you man! is the track youre talking about the one in your signature?

No that ones old, I had no idea what I was doing then haha!

[NinjaEdit]

Sidechain compression.

[Ledger]

Anytime I layer a sub under my kick (which I rarely do anymore), I always lp the sub at 50Hz because you want to feel the bass, not hear it (until it reaches higher notes), hp the bass at 20Hz for reasons unknown, highpass the kick at anywhere between 60Hz-70Hz and throw a fairly lengthy attack on the sub so that the "punch" of it doesn't interfere with the punch of the kick. If it's for trap, you might as well just exclude the kick sample altogether since the main focus in trap is the 808's and one shot synths and the snare. Other than that, nothing else matters really.

[LUNCHPADDLE]

Sidechain compression.

this will only work if the kick has a short tail on it.
if its a boomy 808 kick then the tail will most likely cut out too much of the sub note..
if you want it to hit hard, and youve got a large bassy kick on there, id recommend another way of doing it.. changing the attack on the bass seems like a good idea..

[nowaysj]

A boomy 808 kick is a sub. Aint no one got time for boomy 808 kicks laying over subs.

[Dodecadylan]

i wouldn't boost at all, you get the same effect by just cutting unwanted freq's whilst still maintaining headroom.

what i'd do is roll of 808 at like 80, cut bass at 100, as i find that's generally where the 'boom' from a bass can come from, all depends on what you're using though, then i'll use the resonance on the cut at 100hz to sort of mix in the kick, easier for me.

also if i've layered a kick over it i'll make sure it's not too boxy by taming like 160-200 if necessary.

[benjam]

Idk I usually just write a baseline that doesn't interfere with the kick pattern...

Someone posted this a while back and I tried it. Getting a much tighter and solid low end just by adjusting start times and adsr between subs, kick and bass. Minimal EQ needed most of the time. If it was you that posted it then nice one

[bennyfroobs]

that tune doesnt really sound like it has a very bassy kick tbh
OP, i'd just hi pass a 909 kick above where the bass is hitting and youd get the same effect as the one u posted in the link . like 80-90hz or something.
u can still have a punchy hard hitting kick without the lower frequencies that make it thuddy (the bass will make up those frequencies anyway).

if not, just sidechaining it would be easiest option