Is it standard practice

[Dustwyrm]

To always layer pure sine's under modulated/split freq basses or do most people just beef up their low end.

I've been splitting a lot lately and of course have it split 3 ways.

My question is do most guys beef their low end or high pass it to like 70 and throw pure subs at the bottom....

just looking for insight

[cyclopian]

It really just depends on what you're trying to achieve with the sound. Its not really a black and white; yes/no situation.

[ThisIsSovereign]

Well honestly for sub-bass you're better off having a pure sine.

[nowaysj]

Think it depends on what your process is. I think you can get a solid low end either way. The pure sine is very clean, but probably gets lost on most of your listener's play back systems, in all honesty. If you are a club producer, and legitimately get club plays, or are legitimately on that path, why not go for some pure sines?

Whatever works for you, there are people that do both, you can do both. Each technique is going to require certain extra steps to integrate the low end into the rest of the track, but whatever, its all good.

[bassbum]

There is one exsample I can give where a pure sin will not work. If your midrange sound has any obvious detuning by like 5+ cent or 3,4,7 semitones you might find it hard to make a pure sine fit with the midrange. It works better if you use a square as a fundimental and then mix a little of the same detuned waves in. You can then just put that tough a lowpass and pick how much harmonic content you want.

Now I think about it I can think of another exsample. If you have a real fuzzy/gritty/saw bass sound IMO a low passes saw would fit better under it than a sine. I like to 12db lowpass it just before you lose the fuzz in the sub and it starts to sound more like a sine wave again.

One more effect I have heard is when a track has every sub sounding so similar that the subs blend into one. You get this effect where the midranges stop sounding like part of the bass and sound more like leads with a sub under it.

[dca]

Pure sine imo... if you're looking for low end weight i dont think it benefits having a bunch of unwanted harmonics in that range just to be heard when it should be felt.

[Dustwyrm]

Yeah I totally get that we have to take it on a case by case scenario. See what works is the nature of producing.

I like bassbums idea of just low passing a grittier saw just enough to make it fit beneath while still maintaining a small amount of harmonics that can give it some more excitment. I'm assuming just Low Pass until it meshes nicely with your mid and lower. If it's done correctly it shouldn't interfere, then I imagine you can even sneak a sine under that and boost at 50 or so just to give it some weight.

I guess i was more wanting to know what other guys are doing on a normal basis. Using pure sines for extra weight as a standard practice.

[nowaysj]

That's the point, at least from me, there is no normal, track by track.

The more normal our thinking, the more dead our genre.

[Dustwyrm]

im just on a mission to figure out how to make subs hit like gnarly but still with lots going on in the song.

[nowaysj]

Sine sub!

[bassbum]

Just to explain, I'm talking about having phasing in the sub in the first part of my post. To clarify, not over the top phasing, just mixing in a small amount of a detuned wave for character.

If you think about it... you probably removed the sub from the midrange sound because it had so much phasing in it or was too unbalanced. The sub you removed though is how the low end should be for that sound so when you layer just a pure sine it ends up sounding wrong sometimes. (I have a feeling that someone is going to tell me I'm wrong for saying that and the conversation is going to get very philosophical)

Also with lowpassing a saw or square. My sub defiantly vibrates differently than if a pure sine was used.

Oh yeah one more thing to think about when producing. Don't forget about the subless listener. Some listeners spend there whole life listening to music on laptop speakers and inear headphones. If you have a part of a track where the attention is on the sub and the sub is a pure sine their not going to be able to hear it.

I have even done it myself and I know better. When its late at night and I have switched speakers, I have played tracks and thought they where crap, never played them again and told my friends they where crap. Then I here it with the sub and Im like "ah now I get this track". To think all this can be stopped so easily by having a "suby" sort of midrange in there so if you where to play it on laptop speaker you can still here what the sub is doing.

Man I'm starting to waffle on... feeling like and old man.

Cant help myself...

For the people that are thinking "but I want the phattest SUB though enit man, you get me?". You will grow out of it. When I'm in a club I don't see people cheering for the phattest sub.. they cheer and go crazy for the tracks they like. All you really need is for the track to fit with the others in the mix.

[Dustwyrm]

Bassbum - I typically pay the most attention to mid range, good point though about some fellas living on a set of laptop speakers for the better part of their life, being unable to hear what we're doing there.

About the club not cheering about sub, I'm not looking for that, but I'm looking to see how I can push the limits, mainly which frequency gives you that buzz in your sternum. I'm always trying to make my shit proper.

[mks]

Hear that dull thud on your laptop? That's a fookin sub. Get some proper speakers.

[Dustwyrm]

word, some poverty bros still on that Windows 2000