How many of you guys are well versed in theory?

[ChadDub]

Just curious about how many of you guys know your music theory? I know a little, but I wouldn't say I'm above beginner... maybe intermediate.

For the people that do know their shit, are their any tools that help with the internalizing/memorizing the scales, the chords that go in a key, etc? I know how to form chords. (major is 1-3-5, minor is 1-3b-5, major M7 is 1-3-5-7, major m7 is 1-3-5-7b, etc.) but I was wondering if there are any tools that could help with the memorizing... I'm pretty sure Sunklo knows his shit (IIRC I've seen him post about music recently), so maybe he can help.

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

In not really tbh. but hey you can tell lo0l.

[SunkLo]

I'd recommend learning chords and modes together. Modes are what link chords to a key. They're pretty crucial in understanding why certain chords go where and it's not something that gets taught a lot until you're into more advanced theory. Take a key which is based around a major scale, and go through each mode and play its accompanying 7 chord. Minor keys are just the Aeolian mode of a relative Major key. You can also drill various intervals and play the modes as scales up and down, practice making melody lines from only chord tones of the current chord of some backing track. Solo sax and walking bass are both excellent examples of that technique, I'm sure you can download some backing tracks specifically for that practice or make your own of course.

Then just practice it in every key, in the order of the circle of fifths. You can go clockwise or counterclockwise but most progressions involve the cadence of V-I so it's practical to move to the key a fifth below or a fourth above. As for actually memorizing the note names for chords in different keys, just say them out loud or in your head while you're practicing scales or chord voicings. Eventually you internalize them. I don't have everything memorized off the top of my head because as a guitarist you can get away with just knowing the patterns. But back in high school I'd lay in bed mentally ascending through the mode patterns on the fretboard. If you have the notes on the keyboard memorized, you'll eventually just internalize the notes as they relate to different chords in different keys as long, as you practice deliberately.

[ChadDub]

But how do modes decide the chords in a key? Modes are just the same scale but a different starting point...

[SunkLo]

You play the 1, 3, 5, 7 of each mode to get its corresponding chord. 7 modes, 7 chords.

[NinjaEdit]

I did learn all of that in school. I was accepted into a graduate course, so I should know this stuff.

[gabosht]

I'd recommend learning chords and modes together. Modes are what link chords to a key. They're pretty crucial in understanding why certain chords go where and it's not something that gets taught a lot until you're into more advanced theory. Take a key which is based around a major scale, and go through each mode and play its accompanying 7 chord. Minor keys are just the Aeolian mode of a relative Major key. You can also drill various intervals and play the modes as scales up and down, practice making melody lines from only chord tones of the current chord of some backing track. Solo sax and walking bass are both excellent examples of that technique, I'm sure you can download some backing tracks specifically for that practice or make your own of course.

practice deliberately.

Interesting- I've never thought of it as following the modes when thinking about harmonizing the major scale; I just think 1 3 5 7 (or 1-3-5-7-9 or whatever) in key starting with whatever root note I have, i.e. in C, 1-3-5-7 from A gives you Am7, 1-3-5-7 from B gives you Bm7b5, etc. Of course you are by definition following the appropriate mode, but I just never hold that thought in mind.

[SunkLo]

Yep, like I said it's not an approach that's taught very often. Usually modes get added in after if you dip into jazz theory. But that type of thinking is really useful, especially once you start adding complex harmony. Thinking in modes instead of just chords gives you a full map of whatever harmonic context you're in. A Dorian minor chord is different than a Phrygian minor chord, even if you're not playing the 9 or 13. It's especially useful for improv'ing over chords or using pivot chords to change keys.

[ChadDub]

Yep, like I said it's not an approach that's taught very often. Usually modes get added in after if you dip into jazz theory. But that type of thinking is really useful, especially once you start adding complex harmony. Thinking in modes instead of just chords gives you a full map of whatever harmonic context you're in. A Dorian minor chord is different than a Phrygian minor chord, even if you're not playing the 9 or 13. It's especially useful for improv'ing over chords or using pivot chords to change keys.

Maybe I'm just not there yet. I don't get the use of modes all together to be honest. I know what they are, but I don't get the point of them.

[NinjaEdit]

The have different sounds. Using a major 6th (Phil Collins - In the Air Tonight) or minor 2nd instead of the natural minor scale has a different vibe.

[titchbit]

I took music theory this past semester and got an A

It wasn't too hard but it involves a lot of repetition and busy work. Once you memorize the circle of fifths, the rest is just conceptual and pretty easy.

Also btw a minor chord is not 1-3b-5, it's still 1-3-5. The keys work out so that this is always true. Look at an a minor chord (A-C-E). C is the 3 in a minor, not "3b".

[SunkLo]

Still from a chord formula perspective, the third is flat since it's 3 semitones. But yeah diatonically, it's not altered from the parent scale.

[titchbit]

yeah, it's flat compared to a major chord, but by the same token you could just call minor 1-3-5 and then major 1-3#-5.

in terms of the scale though, both major and minor chords are just 1-3-5 because (in the case of a minor), C# (the fourth semitone) is not a part of the a minor scale, so C is considered "3".

[SunkLo]

Yeah technically only perfect intervals can be flat or sharp, and the others are major or minor. Flat five vs minor third.

[titchbit]

yeah exactly. in fact for the OP learning the difference between m2, M2, m3, M3, P4, P5, tritone, m6, M6, m7, M7, and octave would probably be helpful. especially if you play the piano/keyboard or any other instrument. it really helps you make sense of the piano layout.

[NinjaEdit]

A diminished third is equivalent to a major second.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminished_third

[v-lash]

ftp://188.134.1.36/Upload/Music%20Theor ... icians.pdf

This book is all you need.

[m8son666]

big up that waveform jonahman lol

[ChadDub]

yeah exactly. in fact for the OP learning the difference between m2, M2, m3, M3, P4, P5, tritone, m6, M6, m7, M7, and octave would probably be helpful. especially if you play the piano/keyboard or any other instrument. it really helps you make sense of the piano layout.

I know what all those mean in terms of semitones like a minor second is one semitone up, major second is 2, etc. is that what you mean?

[titchbit]

it means when you look at a minor OR a major scale, it can be broken down into the tonic (1), supertonic (2), mediant (3), subdominant (4), dominant (5), submediant (6), leading tone (7). they are called scale degrees, and they do not change between major and minor scales.

what does change is whether they are called M2 or m2 (major or minor, respectively).