Reason: Twisting and Filtering FM Basses and Growls

[SkairkroNY]

So, I've been knee-deep in drumstep production fro a week now, as a way of taking a break from Darkstep production mainly, but it feels like next to all the high-pitched leads and WHOOP synths I love so much, like your Knife Party and Alvin Risk and the like, something out of my tracks feels missing. The bass.

Now, I have literal CRAPTONS of FM synth patches for Reason's many synths (Malstrom, Thor, Subtractor, resamples, Combis, the whole lot)

But if anything, one thing still eludes me after 3 years of production with bass-oriented music like Dubstep and D+B - bass twisting. Examples like what you can hear in a few tracks like those of Skrillex, Zomboy, and even the odd DnB artist.
I know how to frequency mod, I've tried to remedy this by splitting, even using up to 4 basses at the same time in a track and modulating them all simultaneously but it still just don't compare. Sounds retarded, but it's literally been plaguing me for years, and it looks like it comes so easy to people. i've been having to use a twisted bass sample pack for a while but I want to learn how to do this stuff for real.

To get to the point, there has to be a certain parameter that is modulated to create the kind of sound. I'm not talking about Koan Sound/Feed Me/Spor/Noisia/whatever the hell, that's off the table.

Example of what I'm talking about: I hate to be a trendy twat, but many of Skrillex's bass glides that ease into the high-pitched leads, like what you can hear right before that screeching synth in "First of the Year" another example would be the growl synth before the screech/siren lead in Zomboy's "Nuclear." Probably the most prominent example would be the main bass used in the breakdown of SubVibe's "Ominous."

I first though Cutoff would be it, but some synths don't have a cutoff within Reason. I need to know, basically, what kind of parameter/dials need to be modulated on an FM synth to be able to achieve those twisted, downwards-spiraling sounds like those listed above.

[Samuel_L_Damnson]

I think you need to look at notch filters? like a narrow cut on an eq automated to move back and forth. theres on on thor and on other synths i think too. most neuro reeses have these on top to add an extra layer of movement, its what gives it that "sucking" sound. Also experiment with automated bandpassed versions layered with you usual synth.

[SkairkroNY]

I think you need to look at notch filters? like a narrow cut on an eq automated to move back and forth. theres on on thor and on other synths i think too. most neuro reeses have these on top to add an extra layer of movement, its what gives it that "sucking" sound. Also experiment with automated bandpassed versions layered with you usual synth.

Interesting. Now, if that's how you do it for neurobasses/reeses and the like, how would this kinda sound be pulled off on a Skrillex/Zomboy FM growl synth?

[SkairkroNY]

http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/cre ... udio-18162
Actually, thought I might as well repurpose this thread so people can see this.
For Reason users, it's a simplistic sexy growl bass tutorial. have fun.

[Bigchips]

You should watch these videos !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFaha3kjt5g
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigChipsMusic
Serious tutorials on our website:
http://bigchipsmusictuts.com
I hope it can helps you guys !!

[ehbes]

what is the difference between darkstep and drumstep. does drumstep have drums?

[SkairkroNY]

what is the difference between darkstep and drumstep. does drumstep have drums?

Darkstep is a form of Drum & Bass music that incorporates dark atmospheres and grittier drums, and more aggressive bass patterns. Like, Audio, Counterstrike, Forbidden Society, Donny and DJ Hidden.
Drumstep is a dubstep/drum and bass fusion that incorporates hard dubstep drums and drum patterns, with DnB tempo (and drum patterns as well) and the synthesis of both.

[ehbes]

that sounds the same to me....

[SkairkroNY]

that sounds the same to me....

Allow me.
An example of Darkstep: (Counterstrike's "Stardust") http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE3IvWoMqIw
An example of Drumstep: (SubVibe and Tide's "No Words") http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8KQi_es1fM

[ehbes]

ahh ok gotcha

[AxeD]

At least some of that is just drum n bass

[fragments]

Sooooooo.... you took a break from making dark, gritty bass music to make ...dark, gritty bass music? I guess it would be a very different process considering you have to go through the trouble of changing the tempo in your DAW.

[SkairkroNY]

Sooooooo.... you took a break from making dark, gritty bass music to make ...dark, gritty bass music? I guess it would be a very different process considering you have to go through the trouble of changing the tempo in your DAW.

Well, with some Complextro on the side.
And Dubstep has different approaches than DnB, be it different scales, drum processing, and synth usage

[fragments]

Sooooooo.... you took a break from making dark, gritty bass music to make ...dark, gritty bass music? I guess it would be a very different process considering you have to go through the trouble of changing the tempo in your DAW.

Well, with some Complextro on the side.
And Dubstep has different approaches than DnB, be it different scales, drum processing, and synth usage

Seriously. We are limiting "genres" by what scales someone can use now? Jokes man...jokes...and to be pereftly honest...the drum processing and synth patches arent that different...this whole sub sub sub genre nonsense has run its course with me...its just marekting bullshit...why dont people just make music and call it a day? its all bass heavy dance music...all the uber precise genre disticntions dont mean shit.

Lets be honest...when itc comes down to the final product all these names dont mean a damn thing and dont get your tune signed or whatever your goal is...

[SkairkroNY]

Sooooooo.... you took a break from making dark, gritty bass music to make ...dark, gritty bass music? I guess it would be a very different process considering you have to go through the trouble of changing the tempo in your DAW.

Well, with some Complextro on the side.
And Dubstep has different approaches than DnB, be it different scales, drum processing, and synth usage

Seriously. We are limiting "genres" by what scales someone can use now? Jokes man...jokes...and to be pereftly honest...the drum processing and synth patches arent that different...this whole sub sub sub genre nonsense has run its course with me...its just marekting bullshit...why dont people just make music and call it a day? its all bass heavy dance music...all the uber precise genre disticntions dont mean shit.

Lets be honest...when itc comes down to the final product all these names dont mean a damn thing and dont get your tune signed or whatever your goal is...

Not that I don't support your views and all, but can we not derail this thread into another argument about "labels" and such?

[fragments]

Fair enough. Done. Carry on.

[bassbum]

Notch filters will get you close but what your looking for is a Vowel Filter. I haven't used Reason in a few years so I don't know if it has one but I know there are plenty of VSTs.

You can recreate a Vowel Filter by automating certain sets of frequency at particular bandwidths on a EQ. I know the Ableton EQ has a preset for all the different vowels.

Personally I would use a low to high sweep with a notch filter on some kind of reese sound and then put that into a Vowel Filter. Oh and sweeping the pitch up and down sounds pretty cool.

[SkairkroNY]

Notch filters will get you close but what your looking for is a Vowel Filter. I haven't used Reason in a few years so I don't know if it has one but I know there are plenty of VSTs.

You can recreate a Vowel Filter by automating certain sets of frequency at particular bandwidths on a EQ. I know the Ableton EQ has a preset for all the different vowels.

Personally I would use a low to high sweep with a notch filter on some kind of reese sound and then put that into a Vowel Filter. Oh and sweeping the pitch up and down sounds pretty cool.

Yeah, I agree pitch bending sounds good, but by Vowel, do you mean a Formant filter? Because the Thor synth has those. And, of course, reason' doesn't have VST's but I'm sure a Vocoder and/or EQ could get the job done.

[bassbum]

I think they make the same kind of sounds but they are not the same. Even with a EQ it wont be exactly the same. On a proper Vowel Filter you can choose the vowels you want to use then blend between them. I think in sound you are looking for is going from O to A.

This is a really popular one. (Skip to 1:17)

[SkairkroNY]

Alright, so I got the whole FM thing, and I got this really nice growl.
Problem - it sounds a bit too....abrasive, I want to say? Feels too rough and dry, like this kinda grindy sound, and because of that I can't really feel the tone or the growl in it. Now...how do I fix this? Resonance?
I keep hearing resampling, but I see now way how to get that to work, I don't see why you can't just use the FX on the already created instrument...
Say I'm going for this wet kind of twisting sound you can hear with basses used by...say, Space Laces and all those other brostep artists...what kind of FX would need to be manipulated?
I'm thinking maybe resonance and some mid-range boosting but I'm not sure how much that would really improve the sort of throaty, wet sound