How do you guys approach layering up your drums?

zosomagik · Post by **zosomagik** » Tue May 20, 2014 8:04 pm

I do layer drums, but not really that much. Mostly just snares. I did layer kicks for awhile, but found I could usually get what I needed out of the right kick with EQ, saturation, and compression. A good snare on its own is rare for me though. Do you guys layer hats? I don't but I've seen people that do. Basically, what are the different ways you guys approach layering any and all drums? I feel like I could get a lot more out of my drums if I layered more, and I've been experimenting, I'm just curious as to what other peoples take one it is.

blinx · Post by **blinx** » Tue May 20, 2014 8:37 pm

For better or worse:

I have 5 drum racks in my current production template. Each drum rack has 10+ samples for each type of drum (kick, snares, claps, hats OP, hats CL, rides, crash)

I usually just write out my midi drum patterns using single hits, then start layering up drums by copying the midi hits onto other kicks or snare hits in the drum rack. Then I can adjust volume and kind of mix the hits using the drum rack not the "cleanest" way to layer drums but for me and my workflow its what I like to do to get some fatter, more diverse sounding hits out of the sample packs I have built my racks out of. I usually don't layer hats/cymbals but I do like to move the hat pattern across more then one sample, to get some more "movement" our of the pattern.

Dub_Fiend · Post by **Dub_Fiend** » Tue May 20, 2014 8:40 pm

I tend to layer my kicks and snares (and sometimes claps but not always), mix the volume levels til I like what I hear and then bus them by type, running them into a Group Channel to compress them together. Usually it's three samples per kick and snare, but recently I've been running another channel with a high-passed snare with lots of reverb on it to give the snare a 'sheen' and create more tail after the initial snap of the less effected one.

I also add the reverb in the busses before the Group Channel so the kicks don't get crazy-muddy or anything... and I do some individual processing (compression, envelope shaping etc...) before compressing the drums together too

tbh, I feel like I layer too much since I hear so many other artists using just one clap or something but I like full-sounding snares and kicks so idk, it's just me and what I like I guess...

Crimsonghost · Post by **Crimsonghost** » Tue May 20, 2014 8:44 pm

Just like you i used to do kicks also. But then realized that i didnt really need it. Just a bit of processing and youre done. As far as snare go, i usually just find something with a "crack" to it and layer a clap to make it sound more full.

Ive never layered a hat/cymbal. Just through some reverb on it and call it a day.

fragments · Post by **fragments** » Tue May 20, 2014 9:14 pm

Crimsonghost wrote:Just like you i used to do kicks also. But then realized that i didnt really need it. Just a bit of processing and youre done. As far as snare go, i usually just find something with a "crack" to it and layer a clap to make it sound more full.

Ive never layered a hat/cymbal. Just through some reverb on it and call it a day.

Most of the time this is about spot on to what I do. Honestly for me drums are more about bus processing. But I have fallen in love with that new Dirt and Layers Gold Baby pack. Recently picked up an Electribe R MKII so I have been playing at synthesizing percussion as well.

zosomagik · Post by **zosomagik** » Tue May 20, 2014 10:29 pm

blinx wrote:For better or worse:

I have 5 drum racks in my current production template. Each drum rack has 10+ samples for each type of drum (kick, snares, claps, hats OP, hats CL, rides, crash)

I usually just write out my midi drum patterns using single hits, then start layering up drums by copying the midi hits onto other kicks or snare hits in the drum rack. Then I can adjust volume and kind of mix the hits using the drum rack not the "cleanest" way to layer drums but for me and my workflow its what I like to do to get some fatter, more diverse sounding hits out of the sample packs I have built my racks out of. I usually don't layer hats/cymbals but I do like to move the hat pattern across more then one sample, to get some more "movement" our of the pattern.

This is an interesting approach. For some reason though, I've never liked having samples preloaded in a template. But I might give something like this a try.

fragments wrote:
Crimsonghost wrote:Just like you i used to do kicks also. But then realized that i didnt really need it. Just a bit of processing and youre done. As far as snare go, i usually just find something with a "crack" to it and layer a clap to make it sound more full.

Ive never layered a hat/cymbal. Just through some reverb on it and call it a day.

Most of the time this is about spot on to what I do. Honestly for me drums are more about bus processing. But I have fallen in love with that new Dirt and Layers Gold Baby pack. Recently picked up an Electribe R MKII so I have been playing at synthesizing percussion as well.

I'm curious, what does your bus look like? Mine is usually pretty simple, either the stock ableton compressor or SSL and some saturation.

tes la rok · Post by **tes la rok** » Wed May 21, 2014 12:20 am

zosomagik wrote:I do layer drums, but not really that much. Mostly just snares. I did layer kicks for awhile, but found I could usually get what I needed out of the right kick with EQ, saturation, and compression. A good snare on its own is rare for me though. Do you guys layer hats? I don't but I've seen people that do. Basically, what are the different ways you guys approach layering any and all drums? I feel like I could get a lot more out of my drums if I layered more, and I've been experimenting, I'm just curious as to what other peoples take one it is.

I personally think you got the right style. Don't get me wrong, layering is good. But for kickdrum is essential that you can create big kick without layering tons of samples. If you know your weapons aka EQ, Distortion, Filtering & compression and reverb, you can go far with them. Most of my tunes ever releases only have one kickdrum. Sometimes two, but usually one.I usually have one kick that does that boom (low end) and then one high kick that is more or less just click sound. Then I route them to one bus channel and glue them together with compressor. Also paraller compression does alot.

Snare -> I do prefer layering. But too much is too much.

Samuel_L_Damnson · Post by **Samuel_L_Damnson** » Wed May 21, 2014 1:08 am

^^^^^^ word
If u havent already, try parallel compressing ur drum buss (i usually send thru more kick and snare than hats and high end stuff) but mix a little of that heavily compressed bus into your mix and you will find that your drums pop out. On the parralell bus use a low threshold and a high ratio, a short atack time and a shortish release (not giving u numbers cos its not a good ideA). this should absolutely smash the drums to fuck on that bus and have them popping and pumping slighly adding more beef to the mix.

fragments · Post by **fragments** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:44 am

My serial drum bus is Slate VTM (sometimes), Ferric TDS (sometimes), a couple NI Solid Bus Comps doing just a little work each, Waves PIE compressor (sometimes), maybe D16 Demicort or Devastator depending...

: ) Settings are all dependent on what I am aiming for. If I want something really crunchy I will really push the signal into VTM. The nice thing about this is you can mix your hats, crashes, rides etc (all the stuff with lots of 10K+ air/fizzle) a bit higher in volume and VTM kinds of rounds them off so they are present, but not harsh.

Crimsonghost · Post by **Crimsonghost** » Wed May 21, 2014 7:06 am

zosomagik wrote:I'm curious, what does your bus look like? Mine is usually pretty simple, either the stock ableton compressor or SSL and some saturation.

Most times i dont bus my drums unless i can get a good mix.

For the 2 tracks in my sig, the first one (Brain) i had a snare with Softube saturation (free with my DAW), Waveshaper (cm),Loud Max (dont know where the hell this came from), and Valhallaroom. Sent it all to a bus with some basic eq and called it a day.

The second track, Killing Floor, was just 1 snare with Vahallaroom and some eq.

I KNOW im not a master, but i really do think i did a good job with these tracks as far as getting a good drum sound goes. I really just wanted to show that you can do the same with not a lot.

SunkLo · Post by **SunkLo** » Wed May 21, 2014 7:15 am

fragments wrote:But I have fallen in love with that new Dirt and Layers Gold Baby pack.

Shhhhhhhhhhh! I was hoping that somehow nobody would find out about that.

Having a library of ready to go layers is sweet though. It's something I'm trying to do with my own sound design. I want to subdivide things based on layers and then be able to call up a folder of knocks, transients, tails, high end, mid range, etc. It's nice having everything already tailored and ready to slot in. I really need an audio browser with tagging though because certain samples fit under multiple categories and I don't want to have duplicates across many folders. I was hoping Bitwig would be the answer but you can't tag audio and the tags you can use are predefined

Battery's browser might be the answer but I'll have to get used to using that instead of drag n dropping from Ableton's browser.

When I layer things, I'm usually hunting for transients in field recordings. Then I overlay, filter and offset them so they're spread out. I guess you could say I do layer hats. Although they're more like shakers or something since they're much thicker. Kicks I might layer a top and bottom. Snares might get an attack, punch, tail, and maybe some crunchy/textural layers. I'll also layer enveloped noise under hits to give them more presence. Sort of that lifted off vinyl feel. It also adds ambience and fills in the role of reverb a bit.

fragments · Post by **fragments** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:08 pm

^This is literally the only place I have mentioned Dirty and Layers since I bought it

And what you say about building up your own layer library is a great idea. I never liked having to deal with layering drum sounds that are supposed to be full on drum sounds on their own.

SunkLo · Post by **SunkLo** » Wed May 21, 2014 6:58 pm

I think we're good since they're not over-processed hollywood impact type snares and it doesn't come with construction kits

A lot of the sounds are nice but tbh it's lacking in certain areas. There's a lot of harsh digital sounding layers that I'd never use. I really just like the organization the most. Definitely something I want to replicate with a homebrew sample library.

outbound · Post by **outbound** » Wed May 21, 2014 7:06 pm

That dirt layers pack is brilliant, I've been caning that for a fair few months now and Is great for getting things justtttt right when you want the finishing touches and want a bit more 'vibe'

zosomagik · Post by **zosomagik** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:43 pm

Sinestepper wrote:^^^^^^ word
If u havent already, try parallel compressing ur drum buss (i usually send thru more kick and snare than hats and high end stuff) but mix a little of that heavily compressed bus into your mix and you will find that your drums pop out. On the parralell bus use a low threshold and a high ratio, a short atack time and a shortish release (not giving u numbers cos its not a good ideA). this should absolutely smash the drums to fuck on that bus and have them popping and pumping slighly adding more beef to the mix.

Started a track today where I parallel compressed my bus, and holy fuck. BEEF, it's what's for dinner. After A/B between how I would have normally approached bussing my drums and this, this wins. Usually I would just have a return track with a compressor and a saturator, but I bussed everything to a return with a compressor and saturator and then sent that to another return with a compressor squashed to fuck, a saturator, and decimort, then blended to taste. I love it.

Genevieve · Post by **Genevieve** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:58 pm

Putting a pretty wide notch around 500 hz on the compressed channel when you parallel compress can be nice too. Adds some punch and definition while keeping the mud away. When to use it depends on how the drumbus already sounds (I don't always do it), but can yield some favorable results.

fragments · Post by **fragments** » Wed May 21, 2014 10:12 pm

outbound wrote:That dirt layers pack is brilliant, I've been caning that for a fair few months now and Is great for getting things justtttt right when you want the finishing touches and want a bit more 'vibe'

As SunkLo said...not the end all pack...but pretty tits for the money.

zosomagik · Post by **zosomagik** » Wed May 21, 2014 10:43 pm

Genevieve wrote:Putting a pretty wide notch around 500 hz on the compressed channel when you parallel compress can be nice too. Adds some punch and definition while keeping the mud away. When to use it depends on how the drumbus already sounds (I don't always do it), but can yield some favorable results.

There's an audio rack preset in Ableton called "Brooklyn compression" that does this, but to an extreme. And I mean, like, extreme. It cuts out basically everything from 500-5k, those numbers could be wrong, but it's pretty close. And it squashes the fuck out of the compressor, but it actually sounds pretty good. One of my favorite producers at the moment "Memorecks" uses it in his template for his drums, or at least he did at one point.

ehbes · Post by **ehbes** » Thu May 22, 2014 4:41 am

zosomagik wrote:How do you guys approach layering up your drums?

i find a sample i like. if its missing something, i add whats missing.

xtcvsmistycold · Post by **xtcvsmistycold** » Thu May 22, 2014 8:43 pm

v punchy drums can fuck right off

can people please start picking drum samples with a bit of personality

How do you guys approach layering up your drums?

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