Just a comparison from vinyl to digital releases in cost

[legend4ry]

This is the costs totalled up for ..

6 track EP, 4 tracks on vinyl and 2 extra on the digi release, 300 units, 180gram 12", full colour label and good quality disco sleeve vs a 6 track digital release.




This is shopping around finding the best quality cutting house while still being fairly cheap and the best quality mastering house I can find (ended up going for Medi's ) what isn't going to cost me nearer a grand than not.

I just thought it was interesting that a digital release costs the same amount as a night out. Kind of answers a lot of questions.

[_Agu_]

Getting 4 tracks of your music to vinyl is that expensive? Holy crap...

[3za]

Don't you need distro for both aswell?

Releasing vinyl is like not wanting to make money, but I total understand why people do it though. I would like to do it some day, when it feels right.

180 for a night out!!! Thats 6 weeks of me eating, vaping, drinking, brushing my teeth, and wiping my arse
£11 eatting £8 vaping £10 drinking £1 brushing my teeth and wiping my arse. £30 per week, if I eat more, I drink less.
I live a very minimal, and simple life

[legend4ry]

A tenner on drinking? I wish I went to the places you did!

4.30 for a pint of hopstuff stout AND its brewed 5 minute walk from my house (that is literal time not exaggeration)

Average night out :
Pre drinks : 3-4 rounds, 15-20 quid a round . thats 20 gone
travel up to central : £10 on the oyster.
Cigarettes (cause who wants to roll when pissed?): £10
Cans/magnum bottle for walking to club : £10.
Club entry : £10
6-8 beers & 4-6 shots in a club @ about 4 quid each? : £48
Grotty food after club : £6
Cab home : £40-60 split between 4 of ya say £15.

Total: £129



Yeah you'll need a distro too, you'll find one what'll do both vinyl and your digital.

I'm not bothered about making money back I just thought I'd give exact figures to show its a big financial investment to even bring a small run out!

[3za]

A tenner on drinking? I wish I went to the places you did!

cya in spoons, the tunes are banging m8.

I'm just saying I can do my day to day for 6week with £180

Nah thats like a £5 bottle of red (whatever is on offer really) then a few beer like a 3 for £5 ale deal, or 4 cans of what ever is on deal, or a few random bottles, or I go to a fancy off licene and get some random 330ml bottle of something for like £3-5.

Half of the wine, and if I buy cans, half of them get used for cooking.

I keep nights out to a minimum these day, but when I do they only cost me around £20-50. I go out in bristol aswell, so probably a fair bit cheaper than london.

Yeah you'll need a distro too, you'll find one what'll do both vinyl and your digital.

what kind of figures you looking at?

[baddis98]

Releasing vinyl is like not wanting to make money

what makes you say that?

[3za]

Releasing vinyl is like not wanting to make money

what makes you say that?

Ok there was a time when producers could make a very decent income on sales of vinyl, doing small runs. Small runs in what the market was then 5000-10000 copies compared to what bigger artist where doing 100000's. Nowdays vinyl sales, and music sales in genreal are less than ever. A small run is like 50-1000 copies, and a big one is 5000-10000. So when doing a small run nowadays your lucky to break even, where as in the past you would more than likely make a profit directly from the sales (if it sold).

Thats not to say your vinyl release will not help you secure other forms of income, such as doing PA's. You could end up getting hype around your release, and could end up getting booking of the back of this. Take Objekt for example, but this is not guaranteed, lots of people do small runs that fall under the rader. So you could see the vinyl release as a risky investment in your future. Their is a barrier of entry in this case that grand+. Not everyone is will, or able to do this, and in the this digital age, it makes you stand out from the crowed of 100'000s of people on soundcloud publishing shit daily. If your willing to spend that grand+, or someone is willing to front the cash for you, this proves that you truely believe there is purpose in what you have done, which means you will be taken more seriously, which could be that extra push you need to make income from being a artist.

Now there is also wanting to make your stamp, leaving your mark, having that physical impact in the world, future proofing that can also be motivition enoght to do this, which is the case for many.

I'm really fucking tired, and kind of pulled them figures from my arse, and just the vibe I gotten from word of mouth, so anyone more in the know fell free to correct me/chip in.

[3za]

I type more like a spaz when tierd so sorry if that makes no sence.

[legend4ry]

Yeah you'll need a distro too, you'll find one what'll do both vinyl and your digital.

what kind of figures you looking at?

We can break even and still have quite a few copies left.

Its not THAT bad.

As long as you make enough back from the vinyl to press another release then the digital is all profit innit?

I agree with you though.

Pressing wax is def about just having your label/vision presented in physical form. If you can sell enough to make money back then you're golden.

[baddis98]

@3za

1100 for 300. that's 3.37 per record. considering most 4 track eps go for 10+ there's still a good margin for profit, even with distro.
i don't have any numbers, but i'm wondering where all that money goes, when you aren't able to make money with vinyl as some people say.
on the other hand i'm not sure there's more money in digital sales either. you just get a few cents per tune and many people don't buy the whole release.
again, i don't have any numbers ( if somebody does please post em), but from the numbers legend4ry posted, i'd think that vinyl could actually be more profitable if calculated carefully.

[pete_bubonic]

Should be noted that this is the base rate (and 20 per track for vinyl mastering is VERY cheap) and as Ledge says, only so far.
For any vinyl release I did, we had, artwork costs, website costs, pr campaign costs, mailing records to promo costs, competition costs, p&d profit split. Add into that the turn around time from seeing money from the release (with many shops & distro, small run releases can take up to and beyond 4 months to see a return).

Even on the digital side, you have individual shop fees and aggregation profit splits. Everyone takes their bite.

[rockonin]

Can you guys name some good vinyl company's in England who could press an ep.

[baddis98]

For any vinyl release I did, we had, artwork costs, website costs, pr campaign costs, mailing records to promo costs, competition costs, p&d profit split.

the first few things apply to digital releases as well, right? what does p&d profit split mean?

[pete_bubonic]

For any vinyl release I did, we had, artwork costs, website costs, pr campaign costs, mailing records to promo costs, competition costs, p&d profit split.

the first few things apply to digital releases as well, right?

Most definitely.

what does p&d profit split mean?

Depending on your arrangement with your distributors there are two common (though maybe not so common in the latter) deal:
Distribution
Pressing and Distribution.

The latter is a nice easy way to get a deal with a pressing plant at reduced rates (because the Distro will have an established relationship). However it usually works out as a type of finance deal where the Distros make money from this arrangement (reflected in a higher than the maths dictate price per unit).

[NinjaEdit]

@3za

1100 for 300. that's 3.37 per record. considering most 4 track eps go for 10+ there's still a good margin for profit, even with distro.

You're assuming you sell all of them.

They get cheaper as you print more because a lot of the costs are just getting set up to do the pressing and after that they're like 50c each of vinyl.

[baddis98]

@3za

1100 for 300. that's 3.37 per record. considering most 4 track eps go for 10+ there's still a good margin for profit, even with distro.

You're assuming you sell all of them.

They get cheaper as you print more because a lot of the costs are just getting set up to do the pressing and after that they're like 50c each of vinyl.

of course you're assuming you sell all of them. it's like in every other business, you produce what you expect to sell.
regarding the artwork: just because you can spend 1k quid, doesn't mean you have to. just make something cool and creative on your own.
i also don't think you have to spend much on promo either. from my perception most labels stick to social media, forums and blogs to promote their music, which i think is fine. you'll probably reach 90% of the people who might be interested in your release that way.

[legend4ry]

It depends who is on the label, if you got a bunch of people who no one knows your reach is quite slim, thats why most vinyl labels will get a 'throw away' tune from a bigger producer just to get hype for their first release.


Social media is only good if the basis is there to begin with.. Thats a completely different thing though - one I could talk about / theorize for days though. SEOSEOSEOSEO.

Pete is right, just to break down my costs apart from the cutting..

Website: 106 PA
Template (bought it just cause I am lazee but could make it) : 80 - one off.
Potential 'boost' budget on facebook : 20-100.
Addition ad banners : ?????
Artwork : Luckily I myself am somewhat of a trained artist with a artist gf with loads of artist friends but still 300--400 easily for quality work from a some-what established artist (who again, willl bring more reach).

The average release you're looking at around 1500-2k and thats GBP, I would assume it would be more expensive doinngg it fully state side and a little cheaper doing it in say.. Germany or Netherlands what still has a lot of cutting houses.

Its expensive when you're talking that say you keep 20 copies for yourself ffor promo/friends/artists.

You only have 280 potential units going to 280 people. .Thats a small demographic for 2 grand.

Is it worth it? Probably not.

I love vinyl and want to do my little part towards it and to have the artists I am putting out on physical format because the music deserves it.

[nowaysj]

Definitely fewer in the states, but I looked a few years ago at pressing a small run and it was a bit less than I thought it was going to be. I think I was planing a lot of diy, too, though, so that brought the cost down.

[ftwgmorm]

Digital = 0$
Who the fuck needs a mastering guy

[baddis98]

It depends who is on the label, if you got a bunch of people who no one knows your reach is quite slim, thats why most vinyl labels will get a 'throw away' tune from a bigger producer just to get hype for their first release.

Social media is only good if the basis is there to begin with.. Thats a completely different thing though - one I could talk about / theorize for days though.

you could try to build a brand and get some recognition by starting with digital before you do vinyl. that's basically what innamind did and right now they're one of the best labels in the scene with releases selling out within a few weeks.

Is it worth it? Probably not.

that's a tricky question. imo physical releases are the only 'real' releases. even if you don't make any money out of it, you know that somewhere some people have your record sitting their shelf and appreciate it. i don't even remember the labels of a lot of digital releases i got, because it's just another file on the hard drive.
like you said it's definately a great contribution to the scene. maybe one should see it as a hobby. and most people put way more money into their hobbies than they're getting out of it.