Negative criticism has to be allowed and even encouraged.

intoccabile · Post by **intoccabile** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:38 am

I have noticed that there seems to be an unwritten rule here - an unwritten rule which is sometimes challenged by courageous dissenters ( these dissenters, those who have not been crushed under the almost unbearable pressure to say what the others feel obliged to say, those who have not been been mesmerized by the dubstep hype machine, are immediately attacked ad hominem and " silenced " : order is restored ) : the only good form of criticism is praise / hype.

It seems Dubstep - in the online and offline worlds - cannot be negatively criticized.

But this raises the question : is a Dubstep track by default a good track ?

Of course not.

Then, why is it not appropriate for one to share certain negative views ( in a civilized manner, of course ), views which could possibily be incorporated in the musical production process by the producers who use this dubstep forum ?

Are we afraid of negativity ?

I will repeat what I have said many, many times in the past : this " forced " positivity ( the only good form of criticism is positive criticism... negative criticism cannot be allowed in conversations or threads ) that some of us are so fond of is the " death of criticism ". Negative criticism has to be allowed and encouraged in order for the producers to know what their public likes and dislikes. It has to be allowed and encouraged in the hopes that these views will reach the ears or eyes of the Dubstep producers we know and love and that they will be incorporated in the production process.

A lot of dubsteppers will not tolerate what I call " honest criticism ", and this refusal of criticism is indeed blurring the lines between the good, the average and the awful : when, on a forum such as this one, the only form of criticism tolerated is positive criticism, the average and the awful will obviously " look better " than they are in reality.

Oh, I can anticipate the replies this thread will get :

" If you have nothing positive to say about x track or y producer, then you need not express your views. "

" Your negative views are the product of your subjective appreciation of this or that track. "

I am a fierce defender of balanced criticism ( positive and negative views regarding a specific track or producer expressed in a civilized manner, and constructive in their intended effects ) and I think it's extremely important, for the future of this music, to allow negative views and positive views to find their place on this forum.

skrewface · Post by **skrewface** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:46 am

I must give u props for what you are trying to say but... Dubstepforum.com is NOT DUBSTEP alone. Its just a forum about dubstep. Loads of people who probably will enjoy Dubstep wont login or have no access to internet as we have.

intoccabile · Post by **intoccabile** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:49 am

What you are saying is absolutely true.

But I think that this ideal of " balanced criticism " should be applied not only here, on this forum, but in the offline world as well, in our conversations about the music and spontaneous reviews of singles and albums, etc. even though the views expressed in the offline world will not necessarily reach the producer's ears or eyes.

halvoxshub · Post by **halvoxshub** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:00 am

Yeah, I've been lurking here for a while and 95% of the threads are filled with a gigantic list of replies along the lines of "dis is bad boy choon" or "big ups produca x." This is all fine and dandy but it's pretty boring and I find that there is hardly any real conversation outside of "awwww snap dis is hot shitz." I'm under the impression that most people are either hesitant about going against the grain or simply don't care to voice their honest to god opinion. This forum is an awesome way to find out about the newest tunes and an awesome source for various mixes and what not but the discussions are lacking.

I'll go back to lurking now. PHEACE.

grooki · Post by **grooki** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:13 am

I agree with you Intoccabile, that criticism is perfectly fine and should be encouraged... Obviously the kind of criticism that I am talking about is constructive, so not just voicing a negative opinion - you have to say what it is you don't like, or what it is you do like.

I find it the worst to make a track and post it somewhere and then most people write "nice track" or "bigup, this bumps!".
Firstly, those kind of comments are handed out willy-nilly, so you can't tell whether this person cares whether they ever heard your track again...
And secondly it doesn't help you try and improve that track or give you anything to take away for the next track.

I guess it comes down to people at least making an attempt to be more articulate.

Anyway, I think just said exactly what everyone else has just said. So there.

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:54 am

the way i deal with things is, i will comment to tell a producer i like a tune they put up in the dubs forum. if i think it sucks, i usually just don't comment. if i think it has a grain of something good, but needs work or small changes, i will tell them that in as productive a way as i can, because i DO like to encourage people if they are on to something.

i do, however, think random comments like "this song sucks" are pretty unproductive. i think perhaps the overly nice approach that we find here is a reaction to people's experiences (and i know i have seen this on other forums) where people out and out SLAG someone if they don't like a tune. so i think here, people tend to step lightly so as not to bring a shitty tone to a relatively friendly forum.

as with anything else, it's balance that is required. constructive criticique should be welcomed and valued; overt hostility and pointless criticism are boring and useless.

as always, i enjoy your posts intoccabile.

chutnut · Post by **chutnut** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:39 am

sapphic_beats wrote:. i think perhaps the overly nice approach that we find here is a reaction to people's experiences (and i know i have seen this on other forums) where people out and out SLAG someone if they don't like a tune. so i think here, people tend to step lightly so as not to bring a shitty tone to a relatively friendly forum.
.

i wouldnt say the approach is overly nice, i find that people seem to get pretty aggressive towards people even if they are being respectful when they have a negative opinion. alot of the time the people that are against all the negative criticism react in a more offensive and generally hostile way than the people who were supposedly being negative in the first place, which hurts the friendly atmosphere alot more i think

diablo · Post by **diablo** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:38 am

DUBSTEP SUCKS

END OF !!!!!!!!!!

jolly wailer · Post by **jolly wailer** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:49 am

there are plenty of threads already with negative criticism.. do we need meta-threading - posts about posts??

sorry but your use of the word "courageous" and "unbearable pressure" really put me off ---

unlikely · Post by **unlikely** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 5:41 am

if you make a statement of opinion, someone is going to disagree. You're not being stomped on by some invisible mediated dubstep lynch mob, its just the nature of discussion, which you are supposedly encouraging

kidcazual · Post by **kidcazual** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:05 am

in my mind theres two kinds of music , stuff my ears like and stuff they dont

neither means the track is good or bad , so with that in mind i never feel the need fer criticism

spender · Post by **spender** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:50 am

If people express an unpopular opinion on a public forum then they should expect a strong response.

Of course negative criticism's allowed. Just make it constructive ie: Blackdown. If people contuinue to post topics titled 'Tunes you don't like' then don't expect rounded, balanced discussion.

jolly wailer · Post by **jolly wailer** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:26 am

same thing could be said about "Is Dubstep getting too... _______" threads...

The generalizations are getting ridiculous - I almost feel sorry for whatever you happen to be listening to --- cuz the shit I'm banging doesn't make me want to whine on a forum board

find some better music

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:29 am

Does this forum even have an influence on the development of the music?

Do producers read a thread on here cussing wobble, start weeping and hurl their PCs out of the window?

jolly wailer · Post by **jolly wailer** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:32 am

Corpsey wrote:Does this forum even have an influence on the development of the music?

dubstep would be in real trouble if it did

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:40 am

In that case negative criticism is fine, dandy and indeed - handy.

- I don't like the shirts Crazy D wears

- Youngsta can't run 100m in under 10 seconds

- Hyperdub don't sell burgers

drbluebeat · Post by **drbluebeat** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:46 am

I'm loathe to post on a thread that is a rehash of a rehash of a many times made statement and one that I don't even agree with. However, as you wish to encourage negative criticism, I think your post sucks!

Joking aside, my response couldn't be better put than the Kid put it himself:

kidcazual wrote:in my mind theres two kinds of music , stuff my ears like and stuff they dont

neither means the track is good or bad , so with that in mind i never feel the need fer criticism

Word.

EDIT: LOL @ Diablo and Corpsey. Take this thread and rough it up!

planas · Post by **planas** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:46 am

Does this forum even have an influence on the development of the music?

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t ... t=miserere

daggus · Post by **daggus** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:51 am

Planas wrote:
Does this forum even have an influence on the development of the music?
http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t ... t=miserere

ah i remember that ages ago didnt make the connection that it was miserere nice one

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:53 am

this forum never has and never will represent the WHOLE scene.

there's now probably over 300,000 people globally that know what dubstep is and surely we can take some credit in that as a global community, but the notion that things said here on the forum have drastic repercussions in the sound is a bit silly. sure there are people reading threads, but it's not like they're sitting in their studios being crushed by some poor thought out statements regarding their music on dubstepforum.

we're all intelligent people, and that said debate is always welcome. so is criticism. the point that get's a bit difficult is when the critique and criticisms are rudely presented.

saying that MC SuchAndSuch is "completely shit" is not a critique. it's an opinion. so don't get your panties in a twist when you get a rude response in return to a mindless statement like that. if the only criticisms you want to give out are rude attention whoring attempts, then why not start a blog where you can rant about things like that all day long?

forums are about community, and with that you have to give respect when being critical or else don't cry about it when you don't get it back.

another point to be made is, why deal out harsh critique via the internet to someone pushing their own creative ventures, when you wouldn't have the balls to say it to their face in person? how about that chestnut?

Negative criticism has to be allowed and even encouraged.

Negative criticism has to be allowed and even encouraged.

Re: Negative criticism has to be allowed and even encouraged

Re: Negative criticism has to be allowed and even encouraged

Who is online