Dubstep Forum Co-operative Label

boomnoise · Post by **boomnoise** » Sat May 06, 2006 12:22 pm

Ok, I want to get some discussion going about the possibility of starting a small label funded by forum members. There are so many tracks which we love which have yet to see the light of day. Intergalatic Dub as discussed by Dubway here http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3528 for example.

Blackdown wrote:you'd need someone to drive it, there's a fair amount of decisions and pushing that needs to happen for tunes to come out, sound good, look good etc

i'm prepared to do what i can on the ground level but would be good to have some more experienced heads on board as well.

There's no reason why this can't happen. So at the moment it would be helpful to discuss now it could happen.

My initial thoughts: everyone could contribute a minimum amount that would include a copy of the record and postage and anything over that would help to fund putting the record out. We would rely on people investing more than the minimum to fund the release.

Are people up for this? Discuss.

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat May 06, 2006 12:38 pm

Copy and paste job, ill be back later to discuss further...

It is definately worth more thought, ive often thought when wishing for records to come out that given the strain artists are under to get their business dealt with, it might be good for them to have a hand in getting tunes out

Im sure regarding looking good there are enough talented designers knocking about, i dont think that sourcing material would be too difficult, same with the actual music, there's obviously enough there, its the process of choosing and applying the audio and visual elements that i imagine to be the hard part (were generation of funds to be done on a very wide scale, a co-operative as it were)

As far as getting the final press to sound good, thats a very difficult part i imagine, the whole process of getting masters and good pressing would require an experienced individual with plenty of time to hand (ive heard tales of woe even from experienced label owners)

One big issue would be decision making procedures, with so many people with an interest, it becomes very difficult...democracy is the obvious choice but it definately has its flaws...

Some serious financial planning would also obviously be of massive importance

etidorhpa · Post by **etidorhpa** » Sat May 06, 2006 12:45 pm

Its a great idea, really enthusiastic about this.
Perfect for the scene! More releases, more support for underground up-coming producers and a decent DIY from the grass-roots collective.
I will be more than happy to help, funds or otherwise.

Presumably it would mean developing this website to incorporate the record label side of things, this is something i could help with if needs be (although this is obviously not the first step)...

...And of course, the next natural evolution would be to host exclusive dubstep forum nights with label dj's/special guests etc...

Good stuff!

auralassassin · Post by **auralassassin** » Sat May 06, 2006 1:28 pm

I love the Idea, I don't know that it would work. I'll think long and hard on this and form a better opinion. As far as not caring about making our money back, then it would work... I don't know how we would pay the producers for their work, thats the most important thing to me is making sure they get paid for their work. I don't care about making MY money back on a label(unless I'm producing

)

DeepThought · Post by **DeepThought** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:39 pm

you know this sounds great!

it strikes me as an excellent move forward for the scene, and with so many people to aid funding, designing, promoting, give advise etc, and lets face it soo many real good tunes not gettin released, it has great potential..

but like the above comments say, theres a helluva lot to take on board..

there will be loads of people wantin to help this out, not least me (not that i know anythin about actual labels but i do know about websites etc), but i think that could be where its short comings could be.. too many cooks and all that..

maybe itd be good to see how well the forum mix does, cos technically it is the first release for the co-op label..
in which case the first 12" release could be the 3 best tunes off the forum mix - wouldnt that be beautiful!

testfeld · Post by **testfeld** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:53 pm

Starting a forum record label is a nice idea and its worth thinking about. Finding Artists/Tunes and designers for cover-art will probably not the problem, there are designers and of course artists on this forum who will love to contribute. I think the forum is also a good place to check the demand for a tune.

I guess the devil is in things like tax, distribution, contracts, copyrights, sample clearing...

http://www.rapcointelpro.com/Start%20A% ... 0Label.htm

kion · Post by **kion** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:58 pm

sounds a bit naff to me for some reason :/

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat May 06, 2006 3:10 pm

KION wrote:sounds a bit naff to me for some reason :/

Come on man what kind of vibe is that? Naff?

If you dont feel interested in going at it, or you feel that there are flaws in the idea or whatever, then surely its about keeping quiet or offering some constructive words of warning. Your phrasing implies that in some way its contrived or uncool or some such thing... why do people need to hear that? The reason you see it as such seems a pretty vital thing to leave out

Its an embrionic idea that obviously needs a lot of development to get anywhere near success, but it has the advantage of the possibility of funding from a large number of individuals, and as a concept has the appeal of the idea of a large number of (hopefully) like-minded individuals working together to achieve something they believe in. I dont see that as 'naff'

auralassassin · Post by **auralassassin** » Sat May 06, 2006 3:34 pm

Don't jump to conclusions... Kion is correct. My initial thought was to trash the idea, not because I don't think it's a badass idea, but simply because there are millions of ways it could fail. We need to discuss the positives and the negatives. I think a good majority of people here are a bit naive about what it takes to run a label, and what kind of sacrifice it is for ABSOLUTELY NO REWARDS. I'm talking someone will literally be doing this as a job and nothing else.

I don't want to down the idea, because I'm all for fucking over the major labels and going underground. It's a lot of work, though. Too many cooks with their hands in the pot could ruin a very good idea. I currently don't have much to add to this other than hear Kion out if he has any further input. It could save a lot of time and money.

Also, don't expect any of the label owners and signed artists here to help you out on the business end--you are competition for them.

cede · Post by **cede** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:06 pm

This all does sound like a great idea and all, but there is a ton involved with running a record label.

I run a label myself, and know from experience what it takes. You have to really love what you are doing and be slightly mad to run a label in this day in age.

So a project like this would require someone to be in some sort of director's seat, willing to take on a bulk of the responsibility. You are constantly having to interface with people during the production process, from artist to mastering house to pressing plants and so on.

Well given all of this, I am willing to help however I can. I understand that there are a lot of tunes that will potentially never see the light of day, reach ears, if there is not a sufficient outlet.

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elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:13 pm

auralassassin wrote:Don't jump to conclusions... Kion is correct.

You need to re-read my response and think about exactly what im saying. I wasnt saying there's no space for criticism or discussion, very far from it. The most important thing at this stage is for people who can see flaws or pitfalls to flag them up and generate discussion around them. But what I was saying was that deriding the concept without explanation is not helpful at all. I dont think anyone is stupid enough to think that bringing out a record is as simple as get tune press it distribute it, but regardless obviously I think that very detailed discussion of exactly what is involved and required is completely necessary. Of course if Kion has something productive to say ill listen and give it due consideration, but that clearly wasnt what was brought.

auralassassin wrote:for ABSOLUTELY NO REWARDS.

Assuming of course that any more reward than the satisfaction of getting sick music out in the public domain and money into the pockets of the artists you respect is required.

auralassassin wrote:Also, don't expect any of the label owners and signed artists here to help you out on the business end--you are competition for them.

I wouldnt expect it, but i wouldnt dismiss the idea. To assume this attitude on the part of the people you refer to i think is potentially doing them discredit. Maybe they do feel that way, if so then thats that, but i would hope that they would be supportive of the efforts to further push the music, provided of course it were done with the right intentions and appropriate degree of professionalism.

But enough of this, bickering wont get the idea anywhere at all

lucky_strike · Post by **lucky_strike** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:15 pm

i would be more than happy to help fund this project. i would like to see new producers pushed on every release tho!!
there is alot of talent about, that just does not get heard!

forensix (mcr) · Post by **forensix (mcr)** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:17 pm

i'd help out

there are plenty of big tunes yet to see the light of day

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:21 pm

CEDE, from your experience do you think that it would absolutely necessary to have one person alone as the primary force driving the project, rather than for example having a number of people co-ordinating it so as to share the time required?

I have absolutely no experience in this kind of thing, but it seems to me that so long as there was enough thought put into communication structures and liasing then the responsibilities could be shared, at least to a small team of dedicated individuals. Can you see any obvious reasons this would cause difficulties? I by no means mean to be confrontational by the way (damned written word!), im just trying to draw on your experience

billy blanks · Post by **billy blanks** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:22 pm

With no disrespect intended to either kion or auralassassin, kion is not 'correct', as the idea is very much a good idea in principle, unless i've missed something important about the very nature of the idea.

although i do agree that making the idea a pragmatic success would be difficult, i also wholeheartedly agree with boomnoise in that there is no reason as such why it couldnt happen.

at this early stage, and given my limited knowledge on the logistics of running a label, my dominant areas of concern would be regarding the manner in which various tasks were distributed and the ultimate 'chain of command' as it were. also, i'm not entirely sure what the attitude of say dmz and other artists would be to having certain tunes of theirs released. for example a track like 'changes' by mala may remain intentionally unreleased for other understandable reasons...that is, its fucking deep.

i also dont agree that other artists and label runners would not help at all. i disagree that such a co-op label would necessarily be in direct competition with them, and feel that in fact they may endorse and welcome such a label as a means of distributing info on artists which they themselves have vested interests in. however this opinion of mine is very much intuitive and i could have completely missed the mark.

finally, big up boomnoise, nice to meet u at subloaded geez, the red stripes went down a treat.

bilal.

adruu · Post by **adruu** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:23 pm

brilliant idea, and i'm a little ashamed i didn't speak up about this last year or on dubplate.

my ideas - a co-op record label should be a UK thing. there are probably enough locals on the board to do this on their own. and in terms of dealing with trust issues like accounting and reciepts, you will save yourselves a lot of headahces if everyone is local. people get paranoid very easily over very little things. also, keeping it local would make communication much easier. not answering emails and comments constantly would be %45 percent of the headache that would keep this from working efficiently.

ditch cover art altogether the first few releases. save the money, because if you are getting dubs like intergalactic no one is going to buy it based on cover art.

stateside people with money to invest -- get the tours going. that way you get to hear all those dubs you want on a real system, and you'll probably break even or make some drug money if you don't waste dough on flyers.

now if i put my money where my mouth is i would choke on the pennies so i'll shut up now.

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:25 pm

LUCKY_STRIKE wrote:i would be more than happy to help fund this project. i would like to see new producers pushed on every release tho!!
there is alot of talent about, that just does not get heard!

Its very true, obviously pushing new producers is something that is very important, but i think that would have to come later, as immediately i think it would be wiser to give priority to testing the possibilities and the public response and such, with established artists. Were a proven viability established and a reputation built then perhaps, but that i think is a consideration quite far down the line. This, of course, is just my opinion, others may not share it

cede · Post by **cede** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:30 pm

elgato wrote:CEDE, from your experience do you think that it would absolutely necessary to have one person alone as the primary force driving the project, rather than for example having a number of people co-ordinating it so as to share the time required?

I have absolutely no experience in this kind of thing, but it seems to me that so long as there was enough thought put into communication structures and liasing then the responsibilities could be shared, at least to a small team of dedicated individuals. Can you see any obvious reasons this would cause difficulties? I by no means mean to be confrontational by the way (damned written word!), im just trying to draw on your experience

Well I dont mean one person completely alone, I just mean one main person to kind of head the project - interface with all the professionals at the production and distribution levels. I mean, you cant have your pressing plant or distributor communicating with multiple people for a release. It would just get confusing.

You can have one person who deals with this stuff, but multiple people involved in the process. There are definitely enough tasks to go around.

The way to do this is just probably good email communication. Drawing up a list of of TO DOs as a collective, and then deciding who does what, then as each stage is completed, everyone involved is kept up to date. This is why CC'ing in email is such a grand thing.

Anyhow, I could definitely draw up a 'How To Start a Label for Dummies' list if anyone is interested.

cede · Post by **cede** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:35 pm

ADRUU wrote: my ideas - a co-op record label should be a UK thing.

While I see exactly where you are coming from, it just doesnt seem like a CO-OP label should be so exclusionary. You would have to come up with some sort of compromise in terms of the issues you mentioned, which are valid.

auralassassin · Post by **auralassassin** » Sat May 06, 2006 4:36 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onemusic/di ... lp01.shtml

start there.

second of all, I disagree that it should be completely UK based, if for nothing more than it completely cuts out the stateside people. Granted, we are outnumbered... I'll be damned if I invest in something like this and still have to pay 100 US dollars to get 3-4 records shipped to me.

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