Reason users: Subtractor vs. Malstrom

[drifterman_]

Which do you use, what for and why?

Which features do you think make one better than the other?

I use Malstrom for everything.

[kato!]

Horses for courses mate!

[serox]

Which do you use, what for and why?

Which features do you think make one better than the other?

I use Malstrom for everything.

I would rather learn how to use one synth at a time. I dont want to just write notes out and go thru 100s of presets.

Subtrator is a nice basic synth which is good for learning on. 1 step at a time imo.

[corpsey]

Isn't the idea that with subtractor you synthesise your own sounds much more than with maelstrom? I haven't ever really used subtractor but I think I'm going to start trying.

[abstractsound]

i started out just using the subtractor and tweaking the presets.. but lately ive been using the malstrom, especially for bass. the modulation routing seems to be a bit more open for creating some crazy shit, and i like having 2 oscillators and option for stereo out.. pretty sure subtractor is mono only

[hugh]

thor everytime

[wallace]

Mostly Subcontactor for bass sounds.
NX samplers for top sounds.
Had a go at Malstrom a few times, wasnt really impressed.

Using Z3ta and Zerba2 ATM
Don't really like the modulation on Z3ta in comparasion to others, bass sounds are on point so using it anyways.

[__________]

its all about thor these days isn't it?

[abstractsound]

not if you still use 3

[drifterman_]

i've got 4 and thor

still on malstrom though because i'm comfortable with it and know what to do to get the sounds I want.

[psyphon]

Subtractor = Subtractive synthesis.

Malstrom = Graintable (granular) synthesis.

Both different styles of producing sounds and both very different to each other in respects.

Subtractive uses filters and stuff to 'subtract' harmonics from sound waves.

Granular uses tiny sections (grains) of samples and layers them on top of each other to create new sounds.

Both very good at what they do, so difficult to separate as they both do the same thing in different ways.

I use 4. I use Thor. It fucking rocks.

[daft cunt]

Excuse me for hijacking the thread for a second but can you create loops with another sequencer - say Renoise - out of rewired Reason or can you just sequence loops you built in Reason?

[nospin]

Excuse me for hijacking the thread for a second but can you create loops with another sequencer - say Renoise - out of rewired Reason or can you just sequence loops you built in Reason?

your question is kind of confusing... but do you want renoise to send the midi notes to an instrument in reason, and bring the audio back into renoise?

if so, you can do it in ableton, and i'm sure renoise and most rewire capable hosts as well

[corpsey]

I need to upgrade from 2.5 just so I can say that I've used thor like a dirty tissue

[psyphon]

YOU KNOW YOU FUCKING WANT ONE

[twatty vagitis]

No doubt Thor is a nice synth, but there's still room for the sub and the mal.

The mal is a bit harder to program than the sub but it's worth perservering with it, some of my best pads, leads and basses have come out of the mal.

Another thing I like doing is running the sub through the mal's shaper input and using a lot of saturation to add depth to the sub's sound.

Like the first reply said it really is "Horses for courses", there is no "best" or "worst", they are what you make of them, like ALL synths.

[autograff]

Subtractor for the high end crunchy evil synths and malstrom for the sub,just because you can have two sets of Sine,one low sub then one the next octave up.

Subtractor can make some dirty sounds

havent used Thor yet.

[serox]

Another thing I like doing is running the sub through the mal's shaper input and using a lot of saturation to add depth to the sub's sound.

Thats the thing. With the Mal you really got to turn it around and rewire it to get the goodies out of it! When I turn it around I dont know what to do:( I need to check out some cool vids to get some nice sounds going imo.

[futures_untold]

Subtractor = Subtractive synthesis.

Malstrom = Graintable (granular) synthesis.

Both different styles of producing sounds and both very different to each other in respects.

Subtractive uses filters and stuff to 'subtract' harmonics from sound waves.

Granular uses tiny sections (grains) of samples and layers them on top of each other to create new sounds.

Both very good at what they do, so difficult to separate as they both do the same thing in different ways.

I use 4. I use Thor. It fucking rocks.

The two synths certainly have many similar features, so it can be confusing as to which one to use to begin with.

I've found several things using both.

1. The LFO on the subtractor free cycles, that is to say, it doesn't retrigger the LFO cycle everytime a midi note is triggered in the sequrncer. This can be useful for long running LFO sequences in tunes. E.g. pads or bass.

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2. The Mod sections on the malstrom have far more LFO cycle shapes than the LFO sections on the subtractor. This can be especially useful for shorter one shot modulations. An example may be to achieve a fast drop in pitch every time a note is triggered. (Works well tied to the synths filter cut offs too...)

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3. The filter sections are significantly different. The Subtractor features a Notch and High Pass filter that the Malstrom sadly lacks. Conversly, the Subtractor does not have The Comb +/- filters.

Depending on the effect sought, each type of filter has its uses.

Examples for using a comb filter is when one wishes to achieve a metalic effect on the sound being used. Similarly, when used lightly, modulated comb filters can create a lush chorus effect that fattens up a sound. (Try on a bassline )

Notch filters are similar to Parametric eq sweeps. So if you do use a Malstrom, you could always patch a PEQ2 as an insert for the sweep effect. Notch filters can be used for great bouncy effects on basses as the filter band sweeps through the frequency range. To achieve this effect, tie the filter cut off to a fast LFO or ADSR.

High pass filters are useful to filter out excess low end for higher frequency sounds like medium/high pitched string pads. They can also be heard in plenty of dance music productions sweeping in drum tracks or basslines... Similarly, tied to a ADSR & a fast LFO, they can be utilised easily to create ear candy efx.

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4. The Subtractor has a FM nob which is great for creating harsh distortion on basses, or for making clangerous sounds like bells. In a similar vien, the Subtractor has the ring modulator. Despite this, the Shaper section on the Malstrom is useful for adding waveshaping/distortion to a sound, and the noise setting is great combined with the fm filter setting for creating changing radio channel noises.

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5. The subtractor features Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) controls, which are essential if you wish to create classic Hoover bass tones. Various strange effects can be had from sweeping through the starting phase position on each oscillator on the subtractor.

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6. The Malstroms synthesis type - Graintable - allows for some truly spectacular sounds. Essentially, it works by taking a sample, chopping it up into lots of small parts, then scanning through those parts at the speed which you determine.

Certainly experiment using the index slider to tell reason where to start reading the sample from. Similarly, use the motion control to effect the speed at which the sample is read/played back.

Furthermore, these controls (index & motion) have hardwired LFO control in the Malstroms Mod A section. Shameless promo, but the synth pad in my track Ghosts is essentially two standard malstrom osc settings run through the UN16 chorusing device!! (Click here to download http://www.mediafire.com/?ztsnuzjggbg).

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7. In terms of ADSR controls, both the Sub and the Malstrom feature similar routing options. I generally utilise the Malstrom exclusively as a LFO/Modulator and ADSR unit when creating patches using other instrument devices. I use the cv outputs on the back of the Malstrom to do this, and it is especially useful when creating combinator patches!

As mentioned previously however, the Malstroms LFO's/Modulators cannot free cycle which can be a drawback when one is aiming to create extra long running sounds..

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8. As mentioned above, the Malstrom can be used exclusively as an FX unit. Check out my Dual & Quad filter FX patches in this patch set for an example of what the Malstrom is capable of as a filter unit. (http://www.mediafire.com/?1mcb1dh05gb) (Read the read me if you get stuck... I've tried to explain everything!!! )

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9. It's worth pointing out that the Low Pass & Band Pass filters on the Malstrom are effectively subtractive... They filter out the frequencies present..

Similarly, I often bounce 16 bar samples from both the Malstrom and the Sub, then import them into the NN-XT to make use of the notch filter. (The flaw here of course is the fundamental lack of cv controllable parameters on the NN-XT!!! But that is a different story... )

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Yup, Thor is here... However, t doesn't do anything that the likes of Z3ta+ & Absinthe were doing years ago. These days we further have Rob Papens Blue, NI Massive, FM8, Reaktor, Synth Edit... the list goes on.

Personally I find the Thor ugly to look at and slightly un-user friendly in it's GUI & layout.... I do like the idea of formant filters though (But that is where FL studio kicks in with its plentiful x-y controllers...)(Geek out ha ha )

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To be honest, I've yet to finish exploring the possibilities of Subtractor and Malstrom after 5 years of using Reason! All in all, both the Sub and the Malstrom are useful, and often end up with similar results when doing basic sounds. (Sine wave for for sub bass etc) But the Malstrom really comes into its own when used to create pads and other weird sounds.

I wholly recommend reading the user manual... if only to begin to understand how the various reason units work, and to understand when each unit might become useful....!

Just my 2 cents worth anyway..! Have fun

[substepa]

It all depends if your looking for a mono or poly sound. But Im all about the subtractor, but I dun know gemmy loves the malstrom. Big debates lol