Bassline construction (not the sub)

frostyljd · Post by **frostyljd** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:09 pm

ive got a problem with this bassline ive made on logic in the es2. the attack is quite high and there are notes that are very close together (dundundun) if u know what i mean, but when its set to mono a nasty click appears when those notes close together (not touching) come into play) ive spent a good few hours now twiddling all the knobs but i cant get rid of this annoying little click, attack and release arent doing a thing,
does anyone know of how to get rid of this
much apprecited

forensix (mcr) · Post by **forensix (mcr)** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:14 pm

are you sure its not your soundcard??

otherwise try and eq it out?? i dont know only had this problem once cos my sample had a massive peak which i didnt notice

try soloing the bass sound if it doesnt click then then smaple it and throw it in your sampler

frostyljd · Post by **frostyljd** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:03 pm

yah thought about sampling it, soloed it and it still did it, just a bit annoying that i cant get rid of it using the synth
anyway thanks for that

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:27 am

I've had a click appear at the beginning of notes on the es1 and had to move the attack time up to remove it, although it often still appears. Started using the mono synth for doubling sub bass as it seems to sound as good to my ears and alleviates the problem.

Can you post an example and maybe a screen shot on the settings, and I'll see if I can figure it out on my pc (yep 5.5, I'm afraid)

dizz · Post by **dizz** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:06 am

Yeah try turning up the digital to analogue ratio so that its 100% analogue.
That should do the trick.
Its not on the skin, its in the other view with all the sliders.
Peace
D

antilynd · Post by **antilynd** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:04 am

I know what you mean man, it's annyoing sometimes, but don't worry, it's not your soundcard, and it's not your software...and there's ways around it.

so... this nasty click appears every time there's a drastic change of amplitude within like no time, say, from one sample to the next. Imagine a sine wave that's at its peak and then gets suddenly cut off -- so that the amplitude goes from +1 (or -1) to 0. This cutting off happens at a note-off or when you trigger a new note while the previous one's still on, but you don't always hear the click that it produces, for the click is the louder the higher the amplitude difference is. So when the wave of the first note happens to be around 0 at the time you cut if off, there's not that much of a click. Oh, and the click is more audible with lower frequencies than with higher ones, which makes a typical bass problem.

So what you could do is give the first note some time to decay completely before striking the second one. Set the release time to, say, 20 ms, and make the first note a littler shorter so that the second one doesn't cut it off. That should do the trick.

Another option is to use glide/portamento mode, but thats gonna change the bass sound a lot, which might not be what you want.

check out my highly professional oscillogram... there's two clicks on it -- that's what these bastards look like. Oh, and if you're good at maths, which I'm not, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaviside_step_function (I don't understand anything of that, I just know it's got to do with what we're talking about)...

hope this was any help to you...
cheers.

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:24 am

^^^^
That picture made me laugh something stupid, cheers for that. Disappointed frownies on the dysfunctional sine wave.

Found my new background

batfink · Post by **batfink** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:46 am

Love that diagram. quality!

clarkycatdealer · Post by **clarkycatdealer** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:07 am

hahaha genius

perhaps you could render it to wav and zoom in and quickly fade the bassline in and out - real fast i mean like in the space of a semi demi quaver or whatever to get rid of the click... also i think de-essers and limiters may help but im not too well versed on them..

how goes the tunes shonky?? still working on a bunch myself... safe

j_j · Post by **j_j** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:47 pm

LOOOOOOL SIK DIAGRAM !!!!

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:05 am

clarkycatDealer wrote:hahaha genius

perhaps you could render it to wav and zoom in and quickly fade the bassline in and out - real fast i mean like in the space of a semi demi quaver or whatever to get rid of the click... also i think de-essers and limiters may help but im not too well versed on them..

how goes the tunes shonky?? still working on a bunch myself... safe

Erm, seem to have been spending rather more time here than working on tunes. Will PM you some stuff I've been working on. Summers not good for my dark vibes, many distractions now available.

jahtao · Post by **jahtao** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:49 pm

AntiLynd's technique is the way. And he's right, there's no problem with any of your equipment, its just the laws of physics.

You should have more luck in poly mode (at the top) with voices set to 2 or more. Or try legato mode (aka portmento) with glide (on the left) set to 10-20ms. But this might not be an option for you.

A limiter would just squash the bass generally not do anything to the click alone. You can't eq it out (per se) because it has no frequency (per se). It'd be too fast for a de-esser. However, speedily getting rid of trebble with an automated eq to make the clicks less noticable is, i suppose, a logical solution but i'd sooner bounce to .wav and edit out the clicks using little fades. This works well, sounds better and is less fiddley.

Love that diagram.

doctorkinetic · Post by **doctorkinetic** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:08 pm

Nice1 AntiLynd v. helpful- i've had this problem completely vex me before .

dizz · Post by **dizz** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:28 pm

Did you try the analog digital slider on the es1?
If you press the 0011s button on the bottom of the plug it changes to a screen full of sliders.
Adjust the analog digital ratio to analog and presto.
No annoying pops.
Try it.
D

theverdict · Post by **theverdict** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:06 am

I hate making basslines. I suck at it.

spirals · Post by **spirals** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:28 pm

AntiLynd wrote:I know what you mean man, it's annyoing sometimes, but don't worry, it's not your soundcard, and it's not your software...and there's ways around it.

so... this nasty click appears every time there's a drastic change of amplitude within like no time, say, from one sample to the next. Imagine a sine wave that's at its peak and then gets suddenly cut off -- so that the amplitude goes from +1 (or -1) to 0. This cutting off happens at a note-off or when you trigger a new note while the previous one's still on, but you don't always hear the click that it produces, for the click is the louder the higher the amplitude difference is. So when the wave of the first note happens to be around 0 at the time you cut if off, there's not that much of a click. Oh, and the click is more audible with lower frequencies than with higher ones, which makes a typical bass problem.

So what you could do is give the first note some time to decay completely before striking the second one. Set the release time to, say, 20 ms, and make the first note a littler shorter so that the second one doesn't cut it off. That should do the trick.

Another option is to use glide/portamento mode, but thats gonna change the bass sound a lot, which might not be what you want.

check out my highly professional oscillogram... there's two clicks on it -- that's what these bastards look like. Oh, and if you're good at maths, which I'm not, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaviside_step_function (I don't understand anything of that, I just know it's got to do with what we're talking about)...

hope this was any help to you...
cheers.

haha, quality.

stolen......

antilynd · Post by **antilynd** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:53 pm

approved

Bassline construction (not the sub)

Bassline construction (not the sub)

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