[TECHNIQUE] Making basslines without using VSTs.....

wub · Post by **wub** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:36 pm

If you have a sampler you can make some of the fattest basslines known to man by creating waveforms (or sampling them) and playing them from your sampler.

I find the more you add to a bass patch the more you detract from it's capability of thumping through your track. You need a pure waveform, a bit of filter, some compression and some EQ or bass enhancement depending on the waveform.

If you create a sawtooth in sound forge at 55hz, it's a perfect A0. You them trim it back to one cycle and loop it in your sampler. Apply filter/modulation then eq/compression.

Once you have the basics down, there's no limits to where you can take this technique. It's worth experimenting with.

wub · Post by **wub** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:41 pm

Audacity can also be used to generate soundwaves if you haven't got Soundforge

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:44 pm

I've dabbled in this myself too

I often go further by applying fx processing prior to cutting back the samples down to one cycle. This can give phat & nasty results once the waveshape is looped in the sampler, essentially creating an "oscillator".

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Just to be clear for those that don't understand what we're talking about yet....

1> Take any good quality sample and open it in an audio editor. (Audacityis free if you don't have an audio editor).

2> Zoom into any area of the sample that looks interesting, and save a tiny section as a new wav.

3> Load the tiny wav into a sampler, and enable looping on the sample.

4> If the sample is looped, you can now play the sampler as if it were a synth. The tiny waveform is acting as a wavetable in a digital oscillator in all computer based synthesisers.

5> Add effects as you would do normally to a synthesiser.

6> Repeat the process with a new section of a waveform!

lilt wrote:

in the above picture you can see how there are some very large peaks at the start of the waveform (on the left)
this is caleld the transient and is defined by the A(ttack) and the D(ecay)

then you can see how there is one particular small chunk of the wave that has been repeated over and over again (looped) this is the S(ustain) of the wave

[missing is the R(elease) which is where it trails off to silence]

a sampler that has the ability to set loop points can be used to sustain a short sound eg. a drum sound by looping a small chunk of audio

you will find in most samplers an ability to loop until 'note off' which means that when a note is hit the start of the sound will play, then the looped part will play over and over again until the note that triggered the sound finishes

in most cases this will be a midi note or you playing a key on a keyboard (connected via midi to the computer or hardware sampler) at which point the note will R(elease) and trail off to silence

=)

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For those of you who want to define their own waveforms instead of slicing them out of other samples, you can also find synths which allow the user to draw their own waveforms.

The best freeware one is Fuzzpils Oatmeal, which can also be reskinned if you don't like the default graphics theme. Download it from http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=133930, and try the LF_Lumina skin also available from http://flavoursoflime.blogspot.com/

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:48 pm

would this not be the same as using an analogue oscillator with a simple sawtooth at pw 64?
Personally I prefer sine waves though

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:55 pm

Well any waveshape looped at one cycle can be used as an oscillator.

I guess the love of this technique is in creating your own waveshapes from scratch.

On a per cycle basis, sines, pulses & saws can be modulated in all kinds of ways to create new tones. Z3ta+, Vember Audio "Surge" and many of the AM synths (http://www.amvst.com) allow the user to deform & modulate the waveshapes of the synths oscillators.

Also, much fun can be had by using waveshapers like Computer Music Waveshaper to distort the oscillator tone. (CM Waveshaper is made by Imageline, so Fruity Users should have it already

).

wub · Post by **wub** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:47 am

futures_untold wrote:
I guess the love of this technique is in creating your own waveshapes from scratch.

Not to mention the smug feeling of when someone asks you what VST was used to make it, you can say "No no, I made that one myself....."

djake · Post by **djake** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:51 pm

just read the thread title.... WITHOUT USING VST'S.

i fort this was a pretty standard process, u will never get a bassline like spor, noisia outta a synth

i usally create a wave in albino then export then split the freqs low, high, mid then apply fx's, distortion ect...

and loads of filters doing different stuff, once im happy with somefing bounce it down to audio and then repeat the process then cut those samples i have made up and piece them together

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:02 pm

djake wrote:pretty standard process, u will never get a bassline like spor, noisia outta a synth

straight up. depth, weight and movement = process > layer > process layer etc..

wub · Post by **wub** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:07 pm

djake wrote: i fort this was a pretty standard process, u will never get a bassline like spor, noisia outta a synth

I thought Noisia just used the 'Brutal Elektro' patch in Massive?

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:24 pm

djake wrote:i fort this was a pretty standard process, u will never get a bassline like spor, noisia outta a synth

I beg to differ. (Cuz I'm a c***)

Z3ta+ and Surge both do 'em all day long!

It is possible to get this kinda nasty ripping bass tone from any VST that offers decent PWM and waveshaping controls. Apply distortion, more waveshaping and filtering liberally!

djake · Post by **djake** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:33 pm

futures_untold wrote:
djake wrote:i fort this was a pretty standard process, u will never get a bassline like spor, noisia outta a synth
I beg to differ. (Cuz I'm a c***)

Z3ta+ and Surge both do 'em all day long!

It is possible to get this kinda nasty ripping bass tone from any VST that offers decent PWM and waveshaping controls. Apply distortion, more waveshaping and filtering liberally!

come round and show me and i will believe you

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:38 pm

Ha!

A challenge!

My bassline is bigger than yours

section 8 · Post by **section 8** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:48 pm

Spor uses the z3ta a lot, i remember him talking about it on the Lifted forum. Noisia did a set of patches/presets for the Albino 3, and actually made most of 'Facade' in the Albino.

synths are great to start with for bass/mids, but most of the time you always have to process them afterwards.

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:27 pm

This is Surge + some Reason factory sound bank rex's....

http://www.divshare.com/download/5025766-58d

I added Clone Ensemble Steriod Bouncer as an insert to force mono after Surge. It's not perfect Spor/Noisia/Phace, I'll admit, but pretty raw. I'm certain that if someone knew Z3ta or Surge well, they would be able to pump out those ripping raw basslines all day.

On the synth itself, I tied an LFO to one of the PWM controls. I then set both filters to Band Reject, and automated the frequency cutoff on both filters. After this, I saturated the signal with some sine wave waveshaping, all in Surge itself!

Here is a quick bass sample I made on Z3ta+ too, although I couldn't be arsed to make a full demo track lol. ----->http://www.mediafire.com/?ntjwxnyzyn5

Z3ta+ and Surge FTW I say!

ali jamieson · Post by **ali jamieson** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:14 pm

Wub wrote:If you have a sampler you can make some of the fattest basslines known to man by creating waveforms (or sampling them) and playing them from your sampler.

I find the more you add to a bass patch the more you detract from it's capability of thumping through your track. You need a pure waveform, a bit of filter, some compression and some EQ or bass enhancement depending on the waveform.

If you create a sawtooth in sound forge at 55hz, it's a perfect A0. You them trim it back to one cycle and loop it in your sampler. Apply filter/modulation then eq/compression.

Once you have the basics down, there's no limits to where you can take this technique. It's worth experimenting with.

he's right, thas how ray keith got the 'terrorist bass' [say what you like about the record but the bass is big, and still sound anazing] and probably how lots of old jungalists got it

the wiggle baron · Post by **the wiggle baron** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:26 pm

futures_untold wrote: I added Clone Ensemble Steriod Bouncer as an insert to force mono after Surge. It's not perfect Spor/Noisia/Phace, I'll admit, but pretty raw. I'm certain that if someone knew Z3ta or Surge well, they would be able to pump out those ripping raw basslines all day.

I down right refuse to accept that that paragraph was written in English.
...I think I get "Ripping raw basslines", but thats about my lot.

abstractsound · Post by **abstractsound** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:56 pm

didnt read every post but why is it when someone wants to go hardware, heads show up ranting about how great software is.. go talk bout it in a thread that doesnt have W/OUT VST in the title

in a bit of a drunken splurge last night i was making some heavy heavy basslines through a combination of setting a analog filter i have to very near self oscillation points and then holding a mini to RCA split cable that was connected to the input in my mouth and touching the tip with my tongue(still got two hands). thanks to the resonance and frequency controls, i could change pitch, plus an lfo midi synched to my MPC.. it was wobble i suppose, but we were down around 60 BPMs and it was to heavy to deny

trying to work out a live duo set up based around 2 mpcs with analog & circuit bent gear that can synch midi and last night was a good sign

psyko logical · Post by **psyko logical** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:29 pm

Heh heh, I thought about using this technique in the sample pack contest (editing some sound down to one oscillation and looping), but I decided it would be cheating.

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:21 am

The Wiggle Baron wrote:
futures_untold wrote: I added Clone Ensemble Steriod Bouncer as an insert to force mono after Surge. It's not perfect Spor/Noisia/Phace, I'll admit, but pretty raw. I'm certain that if someone knew Z3ta or Surge well, they would be able to pump out those ripping raw basslines all day.
I down right refuse to accept that that paragraph was written in English.
...I think I get "Ripping raw basslines", but thats about my lot.

Clone Ensemble Steroid Bouncer is a spatial imaging vst plugin. I used this plugin to force mono on the basline in the demo song I posted earlier in this thread.

Z3ta+ & Surge are VST synths, both of which I believe capable of producing basslines in the style of Spor, Noisia & Phace.

Spor, Noisia & Phace are D'n'B producers who create raw ripping style basslines!

abstractsound wrote:didnt read every post but why is it when someone wants to go hardware, heads show up ranting about how great software is.. go talk bout it in a thread that doesnt have W/OUT VST in the title

Um, I'm not sure it mentions hardware in the thread title per se? So what if the thread led onto discussion about VST's? Sampling one cycle of a waveform is linked to synthesis in my mind anyway. Would you really bounce a sample so small from your computer to a hardware sampler. I bet you'd simply chuck it in a softsampler!

Sorry if that seems like an arsy reply, but I feel insulteded by your post cuz I'm one of the 'heads' that showed up talking about VST's.!!

Maybe read the thread through?

Any how, doesn't matter, it sounds like your onto a winner with your live setup

abstractsound · Post by **abstractsound** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:33 am

its all good man. be offended. im offended by all the people who think software is the answer

i dont mean to start trouble but im just saying. i've done exactly what Wub mentioned in his first post, and I did it on an MPC.. ive made 1 cycle of a snare drum sample into a shredding guitar lead sound that kirk hammet couldnt dream of... i will admit it can get tedious doing this type of work with hardware, as opposed to point and click, but if i can keep it analog thats what im going to do.

and about the live set up.. definitely up for more experimentation but im curious as to if using the polarity of my tongue to create basslines on a proper sound system would be a wise idea..

[TECHNIQUE] Making basslines without using VSTs.....

[TECHNIQUE] Making basslines without using VSTs.....

Re: [TECHNIQUE] Making basslines without using VSTs.....

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