elitism through dubplates?

[clone.a.k.]

does anyone feel that there is a large gap between the dubstep haves and have-nots?
i love dubstep, but being in a small town and having little money, i feel i am forced to be a second class dubstepper.
i'm talking about tunes that don't get released to the public for many months, sometimes a year, and sometimes never.
thoughts?

[ramadanman]

been almost discussed to death, but i may as well add some thoughts:

1. producers don't necessarily want every single one of their beats released. they may just be testing out the crowd reaction, they may not like it themselves, they may have more recent beats to release.

2. if a dj has a tune that no one else has, and its a big tune, then it is likely that more people will want to see this dj, and they have the beat that no one else has.

3. most dubstep fans are in the same boat as you! i think it's understandable.

4. dubplate culture can be linked to increased quality control over a scene - only the very best releases make it to commercial release.

[threnody]

Ramadanman is spot on with the comments. Why not do the same as lots of the 'up and coming' DJs (Wedge, 2000F etc...) and invest in some of the new talent. Producers trying to break through will be far more happy to let some of their beats go and you will be helping to support the scene rather than continue trends with big artists...

Obviously every1 wants the new dmz beat but it just ain't gonna happen as they have their band of DJs to promote their sound. It is a heirarchy but why not carve out your own niche?

Wedge is a great example as he has a quality weekly show and supports smaller artists which has given him a really distinctive sound and got him a lot of fans on the way. Every track he plays stands up to the big boys and he has a very loyal following.

Keep your ears open and you never know what you will find....

[clone.a.k.]

been almost discussed to death, but i may as well add some thoughts:

1. producers don't necessarily want every single one of their beats released. they may just be testing out the crowd reaction, they may not like it themselves, they may have more recent beats to release.

2. if a dj has a tune that no one else has, and its a big tune, then it is likely that more people will want to see this dj, and they have the beat that no one else has.

3. most dubstep fans are in the same boat as you! i think it's understandable.

4. dubplate culture can be linked to increased quality control over a scene - only the very best releases make it to commercial release.

1.why would someone make a song they don't like???????????seriously.
3.why should most dubsteppers be second-class?
4.i DEFINATELY don't think ONLY the best tunes are released.
example: loefah rmx of bugz...

[seckle]

this topic's been RINSED out on this forum. search is your friend.
http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5039
http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=371
http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5225
http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5071

[threnody]

i've never seen this discussed.

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5225

[logos]

This sort of thing has been discussed since the jungle days of yore...

[sybian]

This sort of thing has been discussed since the jungle days of yore...

true!

[clone.a.k.]

call me an altruist, but elitism in all forms kills me.
that is sad that some dj's feel the need to secure their job by keeping great music from the rest of the world.






p.s. just cause you might have talked about this before doesn't mean people wouldn't want to talk about it again.

[seckle]

the scene's exploded in the last few months, and naturally all the newcomers/dj's are flooding producers for free tune requests, and in turn you've got to expect that these producers are wary of just giving out cdr's to brand new names. one aspect of dubstep culture that no ones really addressed is putting in your time. being a member of the forum doesn't give you a passport to free tunes. go to the parties, talk to people.
before everyone get's their panties in a twist about what i've said, i'm speaking in general here, not directed at anyone in particular.

[threnody]

It's called testing. Where producers test their tracks with djs they trust. As you will read if you take time to go over previous articles it takes TIME and MONEY to produce a record simple as.

If it riles you that much start a label, sign up some tunes and release them super quick so the masses are happy!

Get yourself a show and start DJing as much as possible and if you are playing out regularly and can offer the artist some promotion you may get some exclusives. If your just pissed off you can't get a tune you want then get onto barefiles and download a mix (and donate!)...Get proactive.

[clone.a.k.]

i love dubstep, but being in a small town and having little money, i feel i am forced to be a second class dubstepper.

i am a music lover, not a salesman.
i don't feel that making money off of music, mine or others (through dj'ing),
is right. i know many will not agree, but i do this for the love.peace all.

[djshiva]

1.why would someone make a song they don't like???????????seriously.
3.why should most dubsteppers be second-class?
4.i DEFINATELY don't think ONLY the best tunes are released.
example: loefah rmx of bugz...

i gotta chime in on these questions, and keep in mind clone, i am not a huge fan of dubplate culture myself, but...

as a producer myself, it is always nice to test your tracks in front of an audience, instead of just to yourself in your studio. there are many reasons to do so, one of which being sound quality and composition, as well as how it affects a crowd. it doesn't mean that the artist made a song they don't like. it's more like beta testing the tune.

the best way to test a tune is played back to back with other tracks (sound quality comparison wise). and the only way to see if it's gonna blow up a room, is to play it out. some songs end up being retweaked a bit before they get released. i do this a lot with my own tunes, i just can't be bothered to cut dubs when i can burn the shit right off my harddrive. that's more of a money consideration and a convenience thing for me, tho.

that said, dubplates CAN turn into an "i have it you don't" sorta thing, and that's where your second point comes in. i don't think it means most dubsteppers are second class, but i can see where it feels like it. i maintain that the best way around this is:

a) make your own tunes and see what happens, and
b) be a more interesting and creative dj and just blow people away with your creativity. i have always said that you can give 10 djs the same 10 records and they will do 10 different takes on the records. so if all the majority of dubsteppers have is the released stuff...well...do something interesting with what you have. to me it's just a challenge as a DJ.

oh p.s. if you have ever dealt with releasing records, it takes a while. i am dealing with this phenomena right now. tunes i did 2 years ago are still waiting for release, while tunes i did 3 months ago are already on white label. but now, here in the states a major pressing house went belly up, and the distros are freaking because a ton of their stock is sitting in a warehouse, untouchable. so who knows now when this tune that i have on white label will come out. releasing records can be a lot of "hurry up and wait", and sometimes dubplates can get caned for a long time because the release is sitting in line with 5 other releases...

[oopu]

all true ya, but quality control, for the health and longevity of the scene---and consider the other side-- the clubber---when everyone and i mean EVERYONE thinks they are a DJ with their ipods and mp3s and access to the latest xyz remix a download away---why go out and PAY to hear a DJ ? They got something you cant get--and YOU KNOW IT--yea thats why--if DMZ and Foward wherent so far away---but i got on a plane to hear joenice play out in San Fran because I knew he would have the goods---and he did! i love dubplate cuLture for that very reason///in Hawaii we get our share of "name" DJs passing through---and with the exception of the dnb guys its all CDJs--and it all starts sounding the same these guys and the rooms aint rammed like they use to be---cuase the music aint such a mystery anymore, and mmm, is it just me but dont mp3s sound like shit???

[logos]

1.why would someone make a song they don't like???????????seriously.

Most producers don't 'like' 90% of their tunes, or think they could be better in some way. They are their own harshest critics. Or maybe the want to test the arrangement and mixdown in terms of big systems, crowd reaction and so on.

No one is 'second class' - so stop whining. Its their (the producers) music and you don't have a right to demand they give it to you, so lose the attitude. Getting into a music, especially one based around UK sound system, pirate radio values doesn't give you the right to all the music now. Thats the problem with the web/MP3/slsk mentality, its almost infantile in its desire for instant gratification. At the moment a lot of tunes are getting released compared to the situation 18 months, two years ago, where tempa pretty much went on hiatus, no hyperdub, no DMZ etc etc. So consider yourself lucky.

The thing I enjoy most about dubstep is not buying the records but getting the latest Yunx or Hatcha set on MP3, going to the raves, dropping my jaw at the next amazing idea a producer comes up with. I appreciate not everyone lives in London or a major city, but thats life - why not get together with some like-minded people in your area and start a night?

[blackdown]

been almost discussed to death, but i may as well add some thoughts:

1. producers don't necessarily want every single one of their beats released. they may just be testing out the crowd reaction, they may not like it themselves, they may have more recent beats to release.

2. if a dj has a tune that no one else has, and its a big tune, then it is likely that more people will want to see this dj, and they have the beat that no one else has.

3. most dubstep fans are in the same boat as you! i think it's understandable.

4. dubplate culture can be linked to increased quality control over a scene - only the very best releases make it to commercial release.

1.why would someone make a song they don't like???????????seriously.
3.why should most dubsteppers be second-class?
4.i DEFINATELY don't think ONLY the best tunes are released.
example: loefah rmx of bugz...

the first question you pose it quite strange to explain if you've never produced a beat. but the emotional experience of hearing a track you have written, arranged, EQed and mixed down, in the process of which you have heard it in various forms literally hundreds of times, is very different to listening to other people's beats. often you have to step away from the track for a few months for the music to effect you emotionally again, rather than you hearing the EQ on a given snare etc.

re the loe mix of bugz - this is an unoffical remix and the track belongs to a major label who have no interest in putting it out now 'booty la la' has been promoted.

people always say 'oh dubplates mean that tracks take months to come out.' i prefer to see it the other way round: other scenes like say house, get their music months late, because they have to wait for the vinyl pressing process to begin before the top DJs can get TPs.

and yes house djs can play of Ableton or CDs but one advantage of dubs is that because they cost so much, you make damn sure you believe in a tune before you invest the time and money to cut it.

i can totally understand why people feel frustrated that they cant get tunes they hear out in clubs straight away - because i feel this way whenever i hear something exclusive - but that 'want' feeling is healthy. it means people feel strongly about the music, not indifferently.

many of the DJs throughout dubstep have used exclusive dubs to gain status but again i see this as a postive thing. When you go see them at a rave they take the fact that you're there to see them very seriously. they dont fob the fans off with any old beat you could find on eBay, they go find the best new music and present it to you. this commitment to the music and competition within the scene between the DJs has ensured dubstep evolves quickly and great new music is made. dubstep wouldnt be the way it is without it!

the best thing to do, if its frustrating you, is do what Oris Jay did in about 1999: get involved. Whether like him you learn to produce, or start a label or a night, or a blog or whatever, the positive thing to do is to get involved with the scene and soon you'll be part enough of it that unreleased music will flow in your direction as gratitude.

[selector.dub.u]

does anyone feel that there is a large gap between the dubstep haves and have-nots?
i love dubstep, but being in a small town and having little money, i feel i am forced to be a second class dubstepper.
i'm talking about tunes that don't get released to the public for many months, sometimes a year, and sometimes never.
thoughts?

Are you the only person that listens to Dubstep where you are at?
If so- you are the no. 1 dubstep selecta in your town.

I can feel ya on wanting alot of the tunes that are on dubplate right now.
I wish at times I had all the exclusives and plates but that still won't make me a better dj or person. So I am greatful for the large supply of great tunes already released and I attempt to be as creative with them as I can. Also as I have steadily worked and presented my mixes to the people on this forum via subfm and my friends in my area - I have started getting new tunes from some up and coming producers as a result.
There is no reason that you cannot do the same as I. I am sure you have the talent and ability to do it as most of the people here do..

Also most (99.9%) of the world hasn't even heard the old dubstep tunes yet so you can be the man/woman and introduce a whole new generation/ group of people to the music that you currently own. There is alot of room for growth for this music and all forms of music really
In addition i have noticed that there are a whole batch of great producers here on this forum who are not big names YET!.. that if approached with kindness and respect would flow you their tunes... Also there are alot of boundaries to push here. I experiment alot with blending dubstep with other types of music and seeing if interesting hybrids result from the mixtures. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. I just carry the spirit of dub into all that all do. The mistakes are sometimes magical moments of musical discovery. etc.. I can go on forever on this tip but i will not bore ya.


The supply of great unheard music in the world is tremendous just gotta go out and look for it and ask kindly if u can use it in a set than put it together in a creative way and share your work.

That being said any one want to send me some tunes? lol

Be proactive not reactive
Be what u wanna see
peace from
selecta w to u

[struggle]

Also most (99.9%) of the world hasn't even heard the old dubstep tunes yet so you can be the man/woman and introduce a whole new generation/ group of people to the music that you currently own. There is alot of room for growth for this music and all forms of music really

good point. sometimes i gotta remind myself that nobody i'm playing records for have heard goat stare or glamma before.

i did post a mix i was really proud of and feel like nobody listened to it cause they knew all the tracks so well though.

[selector.dub.u]

Also most (99.9%) of the world hasn't even heard the old dubstep tunes yet so you can be the man/woman and introduce a whole new generation/ group of people to the music that you currently own. There is alot of room for growth for this music and all forms of music really

good point. sometimes i gotta remind myself that nobody i'm playing records for have heard goat stare or glamma before.

i did post a mix i was really proud of and feel like nobody listened to it cause they knew all the tracks so well though.

I understand that. Just keep chugging along- the first mix I posted on here didn't recieve much of a response either. Thats allright -I'll dj this music and I'll dj in general regardless of whether I have an audience or not- although it is nice to get positive feedback.
However this board is not indicative of the general population. if you posted it on another board you might get more reponses.

That being said I'll give your mix a listen.

Also Sorry- if i sound like a moralizing preachy old bastard on this post and the last one.

[doomstep]

the first question you pose it quite strange to explain if you've never produced a beat. but the emotional experience of hearing a track you have written, arranged, EQed and mixed down, in the process of which you have heard it in various forms literally hundreds of times, is very different to listening to other people's beats. often you have to step away from the track for a few months for the music to effect you emotionally again, rather than you hearing the EQ on a given snare etc.

re the loe mix of bugz - this is an unoffical remix and the track belongs to a major label who have no interest in putting it out now 'booty la la' has been promoted.

people always say 'oh dubplates mean that tracks take months to come out.' i prefer to see it the other way round: other scenes like say house, get their music months late, because they have to wait for the vinyl pressing process to begin before the top DJs can get TPs.

and yes house djs can play of Ableton or CDs but one advantage of dubs is that because they cost so much, you make damn sure you believe in a tune before you invest the time and money to cut it.

i can totally understand why people feel frustrated that they cant get tunes they hear out in clubs straight away - because i feel this way whenever i hear something exclusive - but that 'want' feeling is healthy. it means people feel strongly about the music, not indifferently.

many of the DJs throughout dubstep have used exclusive dubs to gain status but again i see this as a postive thing. When you go see them at a rave they take the fact that you're there to see them very seriously. they dont fob the fans off with any old beat you could find on eBay, they go find the best new music and present it to you. this commitment to the music and competition within the scene between the DJs has ensured dubstep evolves quickly and great new music is made. dubstep wouldnt be the way it is without it!

the best thing to do, if its frustrating you, is do what Oris Jay did in about 1999: get involved. Whether like him you learn to produce, or start a label or a night, or a blog or whatever, the positive thing to do is to get involved with the scene and soon you'll be part enough of it that unreleased music will flow in your direction as gratitude.

could we add that t the FAQ pls?

Serious tho, I dont get how hearing brand new music is elitism, isnt it more elitist fr producers & record execs. to sit on stuff while its manufacterd, then blast the public with a pre-planned marketing campaign while the music sits in warehouses until its decided people r ready ?

dont get so frustrated by not bein able to own something