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Unbelievable

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Postby rebelutionary » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:07 am

I cant believe this. I have came accross so many so called producers who have know clue who people like King Tubby, Lee Perry are. I am talking about people who produce music that are influence by Dub and reggae. Hell even some Dancehall producers dont know who these people are. This is shocking to me that so many people produce music influened by these giants and have no idea who they are. What a shame.

By the way move this thread if I posted it in the wrong section.
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Postby ozeb » Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:22 am

A.D.D. is not condusive to roots, research and regulatin' apparently.

:(
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Postby t-mus » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:33 pm

what do you mean with A.D.D. ?

but, welcome to the new area of making music.
you see it in every genre. (you can't have missed the new wave of gituar bands (especially brittish) wich is called nu wave or something. all traceable to bands from the 70's/80's, but i'm shure many of them don't know the bands they sound like)

it's a missed chance, and in the artistic approach a wrong way of working.
if you want to make something really good, you have to know how it's done before.
myspace.com/tiemoes
myspace.com/subwaydubstep
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Postby deepsix » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:35 pm

T-mus wrote:it's a missed chance, and in the artistic approach a wrong way of working.
if you want to make something really good, you have to know how it's done before.


I would disagree with this statement, but would agree that knowing the roots and history of sound is important.
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Postby kion » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:41 pm

hmm, I never saw dubstep as a direct or indirect descendent of reggae whatsoever. One of many influences maybe, but that's as far as it goes. House (shock horror) is a closer and more direct 'root' leading to dubstep than reggae if you wanna trace back history.

You don't need straight A's in history to produce a form of music. In fact, it can quite often be the case that producers give fresher perspectives if they're green as f*ck when it comes to knowing 'history'. And they're not held back by historical preconceptions of what they think something should sound like.
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Postby paulie » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:48 pm

Rebelutionary wrote:I cant believe this. I have came accross so many so called producers who have know clue who people like King Tubby, Lee Perry are. I am talking about people who produce music that are influence by Dub and reggae. Hell even some Dancehall producers dont know who these people are. This is shocking to me that so many people produce music influened by these giants and have no idea who they are. What a shame.

By the way move this thread if I posted it in the wrong section.


That's the best one in a while.
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Postby Whistla » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:10 pm

i dont get what your sayin?
is this just a post/thread to wind people up??
clearly yes a number of people make what is being called dubstep and dont know the full back catalogue of King Tubby or Lee Scratch Perry. so what?dubstep has (sum) roots in dub/reggae - yes
so does most "dance" music
but dubstep also (as Kion says, btw Kion big up for Yard Music big track) has roots that are from elsewhere. for example acid house (which you cud EASILY say has it roots in disco)
just because sum producer or dj or watever isnt fully a "dub/reggae expert" doesn't mean that the riddims they make are any less heavy.
i FULLY agree that people should look to there INDIVIDUAL root when it comes to music. but this root does not nessecarily have to come from traditional dub/reggae, even if there is a current trend for steppyer type tracks (over the skippyer type stuff).
your individual root, when it comes to music, is the most important imo. if you know where YOU are coming from you will get a better idea of where you want to go.
having an amazing knowledge of King Tubby or watever doesn't really mean much if yer beats are average.
get me?
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Postby rebelutionary » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:12 pm

KION wrote:hmm, I never saw dubstep as a direct or indirect descendent of reggae whatsoever. One of many influences maybe, but that's as far as it goes. House (shock horror) is a closer and more direct 'root' leading to dubstep than reggae if you wanna trace back history.

You don't need straight A's in history to produce a form of music. In fact, it can quite often be the case that producers give fresher perspectives if they're green as f*ck when it comes to knowing 'history'. And they're not held back by historical preconceptions of what they think something should sound like.


I never said it was a direct descendent. As you may know Dub IS a subgenre of Reggae, if you cant hear the direct influences of Dub in Dubstep then we have a problem. Whether it is a one-drop skank or the vocals fading in and out its there. What I find strange is the only reason why I heard of Dubstep was because I made a track that someone said sounded like it. At that ime my intent was to create dub with a darker more sinister vibe, and it came out sounding like dubstep, a genre I never heard of before. How could this be? Well I am heavily influenced by Dub, and darker more sinister music like death metal along with the sounds heard in many horror films and the practice of Obeah. The point of the post was not to attack anyone just to point out something that I find to be very tragic. I never said you should sound like these people, but know their work and pay respect for what they have done. Also this thread was not posted to offend anyone if thats the case delete it now and delete my account also. The last thing I want to do is make enemies here.
Last edited by rebelutionary on Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby struggle » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:12 pm

KION wrote: House (shock horror) is a closer and more direct 'root' leading to dubstep than reggae if you wanna trace back history.

You don't need straight A's in history to produce a form of music. In fact, it can quite often be the case that producers give fresher perspectives if they're green as f*ck when it comes to knowing 'history'. And they're not held back by historical preconceptions of what they think something should sound like.


true. you don't necessarily need to know the history to produce a sick tune, but you can come off sounding like a total knob making comments like "house music is g*y" on a forum such as this. that's the main reason i think it's important to have some knowledge.

i've always been fascinated by roots and how shit evolves though. especially when it comes to music.
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Postby Whistla » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:28 pm

Rebelutionary wrote:Also this thread was not posted to offend anyone if thats the case delete it now and delete my account also. The last thing I want to do is make enemies here.

safe geeza :)
nah maybe a lota people dont kno enuf about the dub artists its a fair comment.
but i'm sure people that dont kno a lot about eg Tubby, Perry etc.. are actually inspired by people who WERE inspired by these greats. if you get what i mean?
the need to look back isnt always as great as the need to look forward with some people. (both ways of thinking are equally valid imo)
;)
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Postby kion » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:31 pm

struggle wrote: but you can come off sounding like a total knob making comments like "house music is g*y" on a forum such as this. that's the main reason i think it's important to have some knowledge.

i've always been fascinated by roots and how shit evolves though. especially when it comes to music.


for the record, the 'shock horror' was a sarcastic shock horror. I like house music!
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Postby clone.a.k. » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:39 pm

i know these guys, but i would actually argue that the less music you've heard like your own, the more original it will be.
big up the originators, but also the new school.
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Postby struggle » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:08 pm

KION wrote:
struggle wrote: but you can come off sounding like a total knob making comments like "house music is g*y" on a forum such as this. that's the main reason i think it's important to have some knowledge.

i've always been fascinated by roots and how shit evolves though. especially when it comes to music.


for the record, the 'shock horror' was a sarcastic shock horror. I like house music!


yeah bro. i totally got the sarcasm. the "house music is g*y" thing was an actual quote from somebody on another thread that i thought was kinda funny.
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Postby marsyas » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:21 pm

T-mus wrote:

it's a missed chance, and in the artistic approach a wrong way of working.
if you want to make something really good, you have to know how it's done before.


some people would think completely opposite of this opinion.
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Postby shifty » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:30 pm

You don't need straight A's in history to produce a form of music. In fact, it can quite often be the case that producers give fresher perspectives if they're green as f*ck when it comes to knowing 'history'. And they're not held back by historical preconceptions of what they think something should sound like.


i think that bits spot on
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Postby measure d » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:05 am

KION wrote:hmm, I never saw dubstep as a direct or indirect descendent of reggae whatsoever. One of many influences maybe, but that's as far as it goes. House (shock horror) is a closer and more direct 'root' leading to dubstep than reggae if you wanna trace back history.


really? maybe not as much with reggae, but I think there is a good reason why we call it DUBstep. there are so many similarities in style and technique that are not found much in house or dance music. Dub is about stripping a rhythm down to its core, heavy but minimal.
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Postby t-mus » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:13 am

deepsix wrote:
T-mus wrote:it's a missed chance, and in the artistic approach a wrong way of working.
if you want to make something really good, you have to know how it's done before.


I would disagree with this statement, but would agree that knowing the roots and history of sound is important.


Marsyas wrote:some people would think completely opposite of this opinion.


i know,
it was stated as a way of working in an artistic way. (tought on art schools and shit)
i don't always agree with it.
i agree that people can make very fresh and innovative stuff when they don't know what the background is of the catagory they're working in.
But:
that is when you don't know shit, when you do know a bit about similar things, you tend to be influenced by that.
and that could be in a way that you like stuff that is done, and you take little aspects of that and put it in your own work,
or you try to get as much away as posible from the stuff that is been done.
and then you are restricted in your creativity because you always have something you can compare your own work with.

and then about that statement of mine:
when you know about the history and all the work that is done in the catagory you are working in. you know what works, what doesn't, what can be original, what isn't etc.

i don't say i always agree with this statement, but it can help when you are trying to make something innovative.

and then 2 sidenotes:
1 very good topic! i hope there will be more oppinions exposed

and 2: DJ Whistla: nice banksy avatar :D he's doing great great great stuff!!
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Postby dstepz » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:55 am

hm, Ive seen people cookin pizza (and it was fukin great pizza) and they werent italian :wink:
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jus a point :D
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Postby moving_ninja » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:19 am

Rebelutionary wrote:so many so called producers


WTF!!!!!??

Since when has there ever been a minimum knowledge requirement in order to download/purchase some software, and make some noises with it.

This idea of prescribed listening is ridiculous
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Postby joseph-j » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:28 pm

Rebelutionary wrote:I have came accross so many so called producers who have know clue who people like King Tubby, Lee Perry are.


Dubstep is founded on (some very) young upstart producers, and to say you need to have some extensive back-catalogue to base your work on is ridiculous.

People have their own influences, and simply knowing who King Tubby is isn't going to make their music any better, or make them any more of a producer.
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