How many of you use analogue synths for bass? (synth advice)

dubstepz · Post by **dubstepz** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:19 pm

As the title say's....

I use a little phatty but am thinking of selling it for a virus ti.

How many of you guy's use hardware analogue bass machines?

Or does most of the dubstep bass put out come from va's or itb synth's?

I have been making eletro and am new to dub and the most annoying thing for me is the LFO sync on the phatty.

It's MIDI clock only and a mission to change the speed and I end up recording diff speed's and cutting them up (long) or pushing the filter rite up on the phatty and using autofilter (waste of the best filter in the world).

I think im going to sell it and go for a ti and mopho. Good move or am I shooting myself in the foot dub bass wise?

I already have a blofeld... too much overlap with the ti?

Who here uses the phatty/voyager for dubstep and how do u get around the LFO?

I know wah wah bass isn't everything in dubstep but I see it as a very important side of my sound and to be honest I can't justify the cost of it if im not using the moog filter for that and the money is better spend somewhere else to be straight.

Predator sound's heavy and the LFO's sick to work with but the raw bass does not come close to the phatty. What plug's do you use for bass (not albino!)

Anybody using omnisphere?

Safe

(if your saving for the phatty... don't bother until they sort the LFO out)

FSTZ1 · Post by **FSTZ1** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:23 pm

I use a Novation synth

it's analogue modelling (as most new synths are) but yet digital

VSTi's just don't carry the same weight for me

dubstepz · Post by **dubstepz** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:31 pm

Yeh I hear that's good.

I got a walford pulse that pumps out some heavy bass.

The main problem with hardware synths is the LFO's and syncing issues.

It get's in the way of creativity man and when im throwing something down in predator it's all so smooth.

Do you bounce things down unfiltered from the novation bass station and mess with it in your sequencer?

Like I say im new to dub step so im up for hearing all your bass production techniques/work flow (I know how to wobble and processing so don't turn this into another one of those fcukin threads).

Do most of you bounce clean and filter in the sequencer mainly? Does this piss you off compared to working with soft's?

Safe

ovesen · Post by **ovesen** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:41 pm

I think, trying to get your hardware synth too act as a software synth, is a waste of time. I would make my wobles (or whatever funky synced LFO changing shit you like) on a software synth and use the hardware for "non-synced" stuff. Too me a lot of the strength of hardware bas is live filtering. After all, the filter of a hardware bas synth is a big part of the machines "audio-personality".

I use a Doepfer 404 myself. Full analogue lovely deepness....

lojik · Post by **lojik** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:41 pm

Why not Albino sorry? Works wonders for me

phonetic system · Post by **phonetic system** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:30 pm

I have a Virus ti snow and that is sweet for whatever you want, the total intergration is just awesome as it has all the goods and freedom from a soft synth but you are using the sound engine from the virus therefore a better sound (imo).

Lfo sync is tottaly free you can sync or not sync. options are endless.

I can recommend a virus you wont look back.

taal mala · Post by **taal mala** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:12 am

i would use analogue everything if i could afford it.

long live the jupiter 8!

robert axios · Post by **robert axios** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:42 pm

I kind of am in the same boat with the hardware, I don't use computers in my setup at all for any music I make

After playing around a whole lot, I think almost all analog synths are not very useful for wobble BECAUSE their LFO sections are typically fairly limited. In my experience so far you basically have to be able to sequence the LFO rate to do a lot of the tricks and get something that sounds great

I'm not saying you CAN'T get a good sound with just doing a sync with LFO and on a specific rate (and with another LFO or EG modifying), I'm just saying it really is not easy. And a lot of wobbles use LFO patterns that would take like 3 LFO's or more to create

So far I've been able to do it and get good NON FRUSTRATING control of wobble using my emu e6400 sampler and setting up LFO rates on midi CC, recording that in to my MMT-8 sequencer..

Back to your point, unless your LFO takes rate CV in, you're probably SOL in the long run. But with a modular you would DEFINITELY be able to do it (and you could sequence the CV a number of ways). I've been planning out how to do that and get a really flexible setup........ but keep in mind that you often aren't even going to want analog oscillators as a main part of your patch, you're going to want a sampled noise. In a lot of patches I've made I have like 8+ voices, different filters on sets, different LFO's driving, etc. That really adds up when you are on a synth and most commercial ones are not going to be set up for that (like I said, a custom modular could be..)

Hope this helps, I've really been chewing on this one (as you can tell)

james fox · Post by **james fox** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:24 am

i use my nord rack 2 for lfo bass stuff, then again it's not true analogue.

i think you should send me your little phatty so i can do some A/B tests

Pallms · Post by **Pallms** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:57 pm

I use a Korg MS2000 for most of my synth needs. I still prefer hardware over software, though I do use the Reason synths quite a lot.

ehcsztein · Post by **ehcsztein** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:05 pm

I use an all hardware setup as well.

Stand alone synths
Analog Oberheim Matrix-6 (sequenced via MPC)
V-A Novation A-station & Korg ms2000r (sequenced via MP-7)

All three make great bass tones, especially the Oberheim.

I am just getting into experimenting with achieving wobbles with these so I do not have much input there as of yet.

I have found that creating good bass patches on the synths and then taking samples of them allows really good flexibility even if it is a bit lazy

Though I don't really feel the need to have a lot of wobble going on.

I just retired a Kawai K-3 that i was playing around on as well which could do really clean bass/lfo sounds but, it was just too big to gig with etc (Matrix 6 is the next to go being replaced with a DS-MoPho which should be able to pull good wobble as far as the specs suggest)

hi-def · Post by **hi-def** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:19 pm

Nice to see some hardware headz! I shunned pc sequencing a while back, mainly cos qy700 + Fostex d108 is ROCK SOLID TIGHT FOREVER! None of that cubase drift and days spent as a windows tweaker.

But to the OP - I use a Macbeth m3x for bass sounds (and tons of other sound). For any complex wobble/filtering I sample the m3x and process in a S5K. Kinda lose some bottom end doing that tho, characteristic of the S5K it seems. Used to have Virus C, great for syncing, you could get LOTS going on but ... the sound ... too harsh for me, sold it.

I also record bits live using a midi fader box, great fun

3rdeye · Post by **3rdeye** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:31 pm

I recently bought a Dave Smith Mopho and its the shit for bass. Great for other sounds too. It's basically one voice of the Prophet 08 but with a few unique features.. its got an external input which you can feed its output back into for feedback/distortion/FM-like effects

elmacaco · Post by **elmacaco** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:19 pm

Does the Moog LP receive midi CC for Filter Cutoff? You can automate that in your sequencer instead of midi syncing the LFO.

Personally, I like riding the LFO unsynced, it's not hard to get it sounding good and in time, and if it's a modern analog you can record the knob movements so if you don;t like your performance you can just delete it and try again. or just sample yourself riding the LFO and chop and arrange if that's your thing.

I only use hardware synths and samplers, the computer just records for me. there are some amazing things people are doing with computers and it's really an inspiration, but it's not the way i like to do things.

skulk · Post by **skulk** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:54 am

DON'T SELL YOUR LITTLE PHATTY!
I have one too, and i know just the problem you are talking about.
HOWEVER, moog have recently released the OS2 update, and it adds the following:
► MIDI over USB
► MIDI Clock Sync
► Arpeggiator
► Tap Tempo
Problem solved!

http://moogmusic.com/littlephatty/?sect ... uct_id=254

dubstepz · Post by **dubstepz** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:15 am

SKULK wrote:DON'T SELL YOUR LITTLE PHATTY!
I have one too, and i know just the problem you are talking about.
HOWEVER, moog have recently released the OS2 update, and it adds the following:
► MIDI over USB
► MIDI Clock Sync
► Arpeggiator
► Tap Tempo
Problem solved!

http://moogmusic.com/littlephatty/?sect ... uct_id=254

Yeh. I know what your saying man and I picked it up because of these new features.

Th tap tempo is alway's out of time.

MIDI Clock does work find but that all mean's drawing out CC, lot's of bouncing... basically a headache compared to working in the box.

The knob you use to change LFO speed in tap tempo goes dead in MIDI clock mode so it's no good for writing bass lines. This is the most annoying thing.

I would really like to be able to change the lfo rate from the synth but keep it synced to the clock.

The phatty is very very phat... perhaps a bit too phat for my tastes.

If you look at the waveform it's so solid.

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:52 pm

Analogue synths seem pretty tasty. When I've got the money I'm seriously thinking of starting to assemble a modular system... I like the idea of working with something physical and limited, it seems like a really inspiring thing to play with.

OTOH nuff dubstep producers are using all software, so you can get good sounds from it. I have an Alesis Ion (VA) but mostly use software - IME what really makes a difference is knowing whatever synth you use inside out and knowing exactly how to get the sound you want quickly. At the moment I reckon I could probably get a better sound in thirty seconds with Synth1 than I could in half an hour with a minimoog.

skulk · Post by **skulk** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:24 pm

Hey dubstepz, sorry mate i haven't got round to installing the updates yet and i expected them to work just as i assume you were hoping (if that makes sense).

Have you tried adjusting the sync manually by ear as mentioned previousaly? I find after recording a few takes I can get what I'm looking for, and it sounds more fluid than stepping through sync'd LFO speeds, plus you can get some unexpected changes you wouldnt normally program.

Also If you have the time (and patients) you could try sketching out the idea you want using predator, then use the sampling and cutting method. I know It takes time, but i haven't found any other method of getting the exact flow I want.

I also have a Novation Super Bass Station and a Novatio K-station and both of those do exactly what you are looking for (adjustable LFO sync) and both sound pretty phat, but just not as good as the little phatty. I love how warm and huge it sounds.

I havent posted on here before, I Hope at least a bit of this is helpfull/doesnt sound stupid and doesn't just repeat eveyrything said before. I guess in the end everyone has there own methods as long as it sounds good thats all that matters.

jah know · Post by **jah know** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:52 pm

Outboard vs. Soft synth IMO opinion comes down to processor power and surface control. Live PA sets running of a rock solid Motorola chip is always gonna be safer than running dub off of a PC. No processor glitches or system freezes. + analog sounds are just richer than a digital recreation.

BUT...

With a quad core processor, loaded up with RAM, a separate HD for sample sharing, and an array of surface control devices (Mackie C4!!!), you get straight up dope with a live set!

Native Instruments Massive is by far the deepest intuitive 3 osc vsti synth out there. It will make learning wave synthesis fun and useful.

Ableton is still the software for dubbing! Nothing else comes close. It's taken sequencing and midi control to a whole new level. Your songs become 'instruments' themselves with proper mapping and control devices!

Yo! nuff said...

How many of you use analogue synths for bass? (synth advice)

How many of you use analogue synths for bass? (synth advice)

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