US Garage vs Funky House

badga tek · Post by **badga tek** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:52 pm

UK Funky (or whatever else you want to call it) seems to be, essentially, a mutation of funky house. UK Garage was, in essence, a mutation of US vocal garage.

Although I certainly don't know too much about either of the two, to my ears, I can't ascertain too many differences between US garage and funky house.

My very, very poorly worded question/ point is, firstly, what are the main differences between US vocal garage and (traditional?) funky house. And, secondly, what are people's thoughts on any parallels between the UK bastardisation of these styles of garage and house?

For the record, I'm not implying, neither do I think, that UK Funky is going to end up sounding much like speed garage or 2-step.

And again, I realise this is particularly jumbled but it was something I was thinking about earlier. Particularly given that a number of DJs seem to be mixing various strands of garage and UK Funky together in sets at the moment.

boomnoise · Post by **boomnoise** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:36 pm

house and its genre fractals are a quagmire of blurry nuances.

you've got to remember the rich history of uk house in all this as well really. the US garage sound was certainly key in the development of UK garage but you cant view it in isolation. Acid house and ardkore and jungle all played it's part. Made it a london ting.

That said, I am viewing Uk funky as the 2nd london / uk reappropriation of house but this time there is more of a european influence. dj gregory for example seems to be the key inspiration for a lot of uk producers.

I think looking at the linear development is interesting:

UK GARAGE > RAVES SHUT DOWN > GRIME > RAVES SHUT DOWN > HOUSE EMBRACED COZ GIRLS LIKE IT AND EVERYONE WANTS TO RAVE WITH GIRLS > TRAD FUNKY > REALISATION THAT DANCING IS ACTUALLY PRETTY FUCKIN GREAT AND LOOK THERE's LOADS OF GIRLS HERE!!! > GRIME? > LONDON PRODUCERS GETTING INTO HOUSE!!! > THE LONDON BASTARDISATION

Again it's been parsed through the uk nuum and taken on board the things which have happened in london since the US-UK garage mutation. Those being dnb, grime, and even dubstep.

Not to mention the carribean reggae / dub / ragga tradition on which a lot of these producers were brought up on. but i think what's key with uk funky is the african influence. Alot of the producers are 2nd gen african brits. Something which was a lot less prominent in the demographic making the stuff which went into influencing the UK Garage sound.

It is especially funny to think that to a lot of people (men) now on the uk funky thing, if you told then you were into house a few year ago you would have got dished straight up battys.

You could of course reduce this to saying that all of this music stems from house in its essence, coming from the US but then you may as well just take everything back to africa

But yeah it's all about the blur and that to a certain extent breeds an excellent philosophy: it's all house music. Hence the unity thing.

richb · Post by **richb** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:25 pm

It's all house maaannn!... oh, you just said that..

Anyway, agree wholeheartedly with boom on this.
Especially the african influence, and very much carribean (carnival sounds). Good new sounds that i think in the past may have been seen as a tad cheesy. But it's all about the way they're incorporated into the (hate using the term but everyone will know what i mean) 'nuum.

*Off topic*
Been thinking a lot about the whole Good times - dark music, Bad times - party fun music. Never used to agree with this, but i must admit that with the dour times ahead even i start feeling like i need something to cheer me up (always used disco in the past) I even find it difficult playing Fallout3 at the mo' because its a tad depressing.. right i'm waffling now/

downngoing · Post by **downngoing** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:40 pm

if the music sounds great and the ladies relate,
get out on the dancefloor.... dont procrastinate!

andreamia · Post by **andreamia** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:51 pm

boomnoise wrote:It is especially funny to think that to a lot of people (men) now on the uk funky thing, if you told then you were into house a few year ago you would have got dished straight up battys.

mixed responses to a penchant for house over here in the us .. deep house (circa early 90's) and uk funky definitely have things in common, the former still going strong in places like nyc .. however, i'd be very surprised to see funky take off in the us like it has in the uk because of the cultural subtleties that make funky dances unique to overseas

that being said, prove me wrong america

yes we can

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:53 pm

boomnoise wrote:UK GARAGE > RAVES SHUT DOWN > GRIME > RAVES SHUT DOWN > HOUSE EMBRACED COZ GIRLS LIKE IT AND EVERYONE WANTS TO RAVE WITH GIRLS > TRAD FUNKY > REALISATION THAT DANCING IS ACTUALLY PRETTY FUCKIN GREAT AND LOOK THERE's LOADS OF GIRLS HERE!!! > GRIME? > LONDON PRODUCERS GETTING INTO HOUSE!!! > THE LONDON BASTARDISATION

> RAVES SHUT DOWN > BAROQUE CLASSICAL MUSIC EMBRACED COZ GIRLS LIKE IT AND EVERYONE WANTS TO FINGER GIRLS

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:32 pm

house and its genre fractals are a quagmire of blurry nuances.

that's just what I was thinking

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:04 pm

He nicked that description word for word off Marcus Nasty, too.

boomnoise · Post by **boomnoise** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:11 am

thanks for keeping the debate alive!

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:46 am

To be honest I can't really comment on how funky is developing because my impression of it is all taken from hearing Marcus on Rinse and a few other DJs, I can't remember who told me this but apparently the soca-y/grime-y funky is actually still quite a peripheral element of the funky scene 'proper' at the moment - apparently the US Garage influenced stuff still predominates (alongside minimal/tech-house and other genres you see quite heavily represented nowadays on Rinse) - but perhaps it was like that in the UKG scene back when it was mostly half sped up MAW/Kerri Chandler records?

Personally I don't really have a problem with the supposedly more bland stuff, a lot of it is boring from the perspective of somebody into jungle/2-step etc. but I think that the deep/soulful house element to the scene is important for the music because it anchors it in a party/'feminine' purpose which means that even the most grimey stuff is still danceable and fun. I think listening to funky has made me more curious about house generally, also - I got this Dennis Ferrer CD with Mixmag a while ago and never listened to it, assuming it would be cheesy boring etc... and now because I know a lot of funky producers/DJs are into Ferrer, I've given it a listen and a lot of it is really good!

I've been wondering lately why dubstep by-and-large isn't really doing it for me anymore, and I suppose there are a lot of complex reasons (living outside a city, being unable to regularly buy vinyl, getting too involved in rhetoric/arguments surrounding the music etc...) but perhaps it all just boils down to: been there done that? I dunno, there just isn't that freshness about it anymore for me, even in a lot of the more supposedly experimental stuff. I think this year I'm going to start buying a lot more house/garage and techno, especially as it can all be mixed together reasonably easily...

This is why, while I appreciate that most of what funky producers are doing has probably been done before, even as early as the late 80s (but then, listening to stuff like Kraftwerk/Synth pop I'm constantly struck by how MOST modern electronic music seems to haev been 'done before'), I think it's useless to complain about the new genre name, the claims to originality etc... I think the important thing about the people making/listening to UK Funky defining it as a new genre (although playing plenty of tunes that fall outside the genre, certainly outside of the UK production pool) is that it a) provides a way into house for a lot of people that wouldn't usually give it the time of day b) provides a creative impetus for people who are unaware of the history and conventions of house, and are therefore perhaps more likely to break with those conventions unconsciously.

If that makes sense?

andreamia · Post by **andreamia** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:27 pm

Corpsey wrote:This is why, while I appreciate that most of what funky producers are doing has probably been done before, even as early as the late 80s (but then, listening to stuff like Kraftwerk/Synth pop I'm constantly struck by how MOST modern electronic music seems to haev been 'done before'), I think it's useless to complain about the new genre name, the claims to originality etc... I think the important thing about the people making/listening to UK Funky defining it as a new genre (although playing plenty of tunes that fall outside the genre, certainly outside of the UK production pool) is that it a) provides a way into house for a lot of people that wouldn't usually give it the time of day b) provides a creative impetus for people who are unaware of the history and conventions of house, and are therefore perhaps more likely to break with those conventions unconsciously.

If that makes sense?

yep.

space disco and disco house are good examples of genres that (quite literally) borrow elements and basics of their namesakes, i agree its a bit of a circular argument because you can justify that everything that is produced nowadays is in fact inspired by something else.

you brought up another good point that i was going to mention before, that in many ways funky is definitely providing a 'backdoor' into listening to house music for many people that would have otherwise associated it with some predetermined stigma of who-knows-what. and i'm happy to say that house is very much still alive and kicking in nyc, with weekly parties going strong and full of kids always curious to know about this type of music that just makes them feel good and want to dance.

thc · Post by **thc** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:43 pm

can anyone school me in US Garage? any sets to dl?

I love UK Garage and i'd like to hear the stuff that inspired it.

corpsey · Post by **corpsey** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:28 pm

thc wrote:can anyone school me in US Garage? any sets to dl?

I love UK Garage and i'd like to hear the stuff that inspired it.

Me too.

badga tek · Post by **badga tek** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:50 pm

Corpsey wrote:
thc wrote:can anyone school me in US Garage? any sets to dl?

I love UK Garage and i'd like to hear the stuff that inspired it.
Me too.

Ditto. Or even the really early UK garage stuff like 1997 and before.

And I've got to say I'm surprised that my completely jumbled rambling original post managed to spark any kind of meaningful discussion. Big up

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:42 pm

Badga Tek wrote:
Corpsey wrote:
thc wrote:can anyone school me in US Garage? any sets to dl?

I love UK Garage and i'd like to hear the stuff that inspired it.
Me too.
Ditto. Or even the really early UK garage stuff like 1997 and before.

Mr Marvin Swiftfingers G did a show on this tip of early UK stuff along with some US garage called 'Back To 95'

http://its-a-london-thing.blogspot.com/ ... to-95.html

also this is probably a very good insight into what kind of stuff was big in the UK scene

http://www.sendspace.com/file/6a57gi (courtesy of Owen Griffiths)

i don't actually know what happened cos i wasn't there of course, but from impression and intuition, i have always imagined that the early 90s Strictly Rhythm and Nervous sounds must have been influential, a few names that occur

MAW
Roger S
Mood II Swing
Todd Edwards
MK
Kerri Chandler

but im sure thats not really an accurate or anywhere near full depiction

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:12 pm

also (sorry if this seems like/is a plug) you can hear loads of US and UK garage and house on our radio show, links in my signature

badga tek · Post by **badga tek** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:52 pm

elgato wrote:also (sorry if this seems like/is a plug) you can hear loads of US and UK garage and house on our radio show, links in my signature

Shameless

Cheers for those links though

elgato · Post by **elgato** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:24 pm

Badga Tek wrote:
elgato wrote:also (sorry if this seems like/is a plug) you can hear loads of US and UK garage and house on our radio show, links in my signature
Shameless

yes indeed!

funky stanton · Post by **funky stanton** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:48 pm

Corpsey wrote:I can't remember who told me this but apparently the soca-y/grime-y funky is actually still quite a peripheral element of the funky scene 'proper' at the moment - apparently the US Garage influenced stuff still predominates (alongside minimal/tech-house and other genres you see quite heavily represented nowadays on Rinse)

I've heard a few people refer to mixing all this slightly different housey stuff as 'Hybrid House'. Sounds fair enough to me, you've got to have some distinction for the flyers and that.

I find it a bit weird the way a lot of folk (mostly living in central london) are going on about how the LDN Yoofs have 'discovered house'. Have they ever lived on the periphery of London? Clubs further play all sorts of stuff that never gets played anymore in central london clubs, especially not the kind that scruffy underground music otaku frequent. Half the producers making this stuff probably had parents going out raving to house in the 80s and 90s when they were growing up, I find it far easier to believe that most of them have known house from day than have recently had some house epiphany.

funky stanton · Post by **funky stanton** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:10 pm

The scene I'm currently working on for this programme is called 'Medieval House', I wants to hear me some of that.

US Garage vs Funky House

US Garage vs Funky House

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