Harmonic And Melodic Minors

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:43 pm

Does anybody think they can sum these up in a way that would stick in my mind for the rest of my life?
I want to be able to use them without thinking about it...

Sharmaji · Post by **Sharmaji** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:49 pm

tbh it's gonna take practice, and youre gonna have to think about it.

natural minor has a flatted 3rd and a flatted 7th.

melodic minor has a flatted 3rd and a natural 7th.

harmonic minor has a flatted 3rd, augmented 6th and a natural 7th.

best thing to do would be to practice them, with both hands, in A minor.

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:46 pm

TeReKeTe wrote:tbh it's gonna take practice, and youre gonna have to think about it.

natural minor has a flatted 3rd and a flatted 7th.

melodic minor has a flatted 3rd and a natural 7th.

harmonic minor has a flatted 3rd, augmented 6th and a natural 7th.

best thing to do would be to practice them, with both hands, in A minor.

That's cool man, even that has been a nice simple way of putting it... All the stuff I've read or have been told make it seem a whole lot more complicated...

So, what're the rules on changing from say a natural to harmonic minor half way through a tune, is this 'allowed'?

Say for example I was playing a melody which had... E, Eb (or D#) and G... I don't know of any natural scales which contain these three notes... But they sound fine?

Where is it I'm getting confused here?!

test_recordings · Post by **test_recordings** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:18 pm

You're expecting something that doesn't fit with what actually is, you need to make the association between dcales.
Just keep hearing them and learn their distinctions

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:23 pm

TEST RECORDINGS wrote:You're expecting something that doesn't fit with what actually is, you need to make the association between dcales.
Just keep hearing them and learn their distinctions

Thanks mate, your comment was really helpful

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:33 pm

nowaysj wrote:
WiREZ wrote: playing a melody which had... E, Eb (or D#) and G... I don't know of any natural scales which contain these three notes... But they sound fine?

Where is it I'm getting confused here?!
If you're just playing those notes, they'll sound fine. Its only as you start to harmonize (is that the correct usage, prolly not) as you start to add notes beyond that range, either in the same melodic line, or on other instruments playing over/behind that line that some awkwardness will ensue.

People do write music in chromatic scales do they not?

hhmm so you're saying, if I'm using a note that is out of key, only let notes of the same pitch sit with it?

Mad_EP · Post by **Mad_EP** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:16 pm

WiREZ wrote: Say for example I was playing a melody which had... E, Eb (or D#) and G... I don't know of any natural scales which contain these three notes... But they sound fine?

Where is it I'm getting confused here?!

My guess is that you are using E minor.

An E natural minor scale is:
E F# G A B C D E

However, it is quite common in minor keys to raise the 7th as a leading tone.. which is why you find it in both melodic & harmonic minor scales.

E melodic minor:
E F# G A B C# D# E
(note: those are the notes in ascension, descending melodic minor scales are the same as natural minor scales)

E harmonic minor:
E F# G A B C D# E

(TeReKeTe- you were a bit off on your definitions.. I think you switched melodic & harmonic around)

scooterjack · Post by **scooterjack** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:49 pm

needs moar threads like this

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:01 pm

mad ep wrote:
WiREZ wrote: Say for example I was playing a melody which had... E, Eb (or D#) and G... I don't know of any natural scales which contain these three notes... But they sound fine?

Where is it I'm getting confused here?!

My guess is that you are using E minor.

An E natural minor scale is:
E F# G A B C D E

However, it is quite common in minor keys to raise the 7th as a leading tone.. which is why you find it in both melodic & harmonic minor scales.

E melodic minor:
E F# G A B C# D# E
(note: those are the notes in ascension, descending melodic minor scales are the same as natural minor scales)

E harmonic minor:
E F# G A B C D# E

(TeReKeTe- you were a bit off on your definitions.. I think you switched melodic & harmonic around)

Whyrez: Becomes confused again :\

Explain it the same way Terek did

Mad_EP · Post by **Mad_EP** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:11 pm

I don't know how much more clear I can make it...

I told you the key, and even spelled out the exact notes in each of the 3 different derivations of the scale...

?

I am more than happy to help- but, you need to be clearer about what you want/need.

caeraphym · Post by **caeraphym** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:32 pm

This is where a little understanding of music theory can go a long way.
And practise...

I like these threads for they remind me of stuff I've forgotten, show me new ways of doing things, and make me wish my folks had a piano when I was a kid

Mad_EP · Post by **Mad_EP** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:44 pm

To be honest, as elementary as I find this thread... I would MUCH rather have 10 of these type of threads up instead of 10 wobble threads.

It NEVER bothers me how basic... if people are wanting to expand their knowledge, it is only a GOOD thing. Just figure out what it is you want to know... and I assure you, there are plenty of people on this board (myself included) who are waiting to help.

Part of the reason I hang around this forum, even tho I don't produce much dubstep myself, is because of the raw hunger I find here... people want to know cos they want to elevate their game for real... none of this artificial 'L337n355" bullshit. That is something to take pride in.

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:06 pm

mad ep wrote:To be honest, as elementary as I find this thread... I would MUCH rather have 10 of these type of threads up instead of 10 wobble threads.

It NEVER bothers me how basic... if people are wanting to expand their knowledge, it is only a GOOD thing. Just figure out what it is you want to know... and I assure you, there are plenty of people on this board (myself included) who are waiting to help.

Part of the reason I hang around this forum, even tho I don't produce much dubstep myself, is because of the raw hunger I find here... people want to know cos they want to elevate their game for real... none of this artificial 'L337n355" bullshit. That is something to take pride in.

'L337n355"?

Man, I need an example for all scales, not just one example of a scale you know?

Disco Nutter · Post by **Disco Nutter** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:12 pm

http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/vpc/piano_chords.htm

Mad_EP · Post by **Mad_EP** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:17 pm

WiREZ wrote: Man, I need an example for all scales, not just one example of a scale you know?

No problem... I had just given you examples for the particular track you were inquiring about.

But I gotta say... JohnnyBeat's link is pretty dope. Kind of like a Cliff's Notes for Scales, Chords & Keys.

I would be happy to write out some basic theory lessons, but for some reason I thought they might be already covered in some of the older stickied threads...

If not- TeReKeTe, just to let you know, I would be happy to write some stuff up on this... let me know.

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:20 pm

mad ep wrote:
WiREZ wrote: Man, I need an example for all scales, not just one example of a scale you know?
No problem... I had just given you examples for the particular track you were inquiring about.

But I gotta say... JohnnyBeat's link is pretty dope. Kind of like a Cliff's Notes for Scales, Chords & Keys.

I would be happy to write out some basic theory lessons, but for some reason I thought they might be already covered in some of the older stickied threads...

If not- TeReKeTe, just to let you know, I would be happy to write some stuff up on this... let me know.

I know basic theory man, but I'd say minor scales other than natural are more advanced theory...

But cheers dude I'll check this link of his out, and thanks Johnny too!

Mad_EP · Post by **Mad_EP** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:29 pm

Not calling you out...

...but all scales in major & minor (natural, melodic, harmonic) is the very basis of basic theory.

I think what you really need, is to get intimate with the circle of fifths...

Learn all your key signatures- majors and relative minors. THAT is basic theory... and the step from which you will move on to all other techniques.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Circl ... luxe_4.svg

Trust.

wirez · Post by **wirez** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:33 pm

I know the circle of fifths as well as all natural minor and major scales... I wasn't taught harmonic and melodic minor as part of my basic theory

Harmonic And Melodic Minors

Harmonic And Melodic Minors

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