Progression..

[legend4ry]

So lets forget about midrange cack for a second because no one makes it unless they've been into the sound for 5 minutes and don't know no different..And start a discussion on something what isn't someone's broken equipment or making basses

Whats your steps for building progression and where do you plan to take it?

Do you just try to thicken up the sound or do you try and shift from one mood/vibe/group of sounds to another?

What do you use as your main (or main couple) of instruments to build progression and whats your favourite chord progression to use in a tune - what scale do you think works best for progressive type of dubstep?

[wheez-ie]

though i havent done it in dubstep yet...C-7 to F-7(9) is purdy

[ninjadog]

Whats your steps for building progression and where do you plan to take it?

Do you just try to thicken up the sound or do you try and shift from one mood/vibe/group of sounds to another?

I do try to shift vibes, either a question/answer or a conflict/resolution type thing. I try to sort of tell a story when I am at my best.

As for steps it's usually different and depends on my mood or the song. Sometimes an audio book sample will set the tone, sometimes a synth patch
will get me going. But more often then not it's the things I do randomly or by accident which yield my favorite results as opposed to trying to get out exactly what I planned to do in my head. Or maybe I enjoy the random accidents because I can get sick of hearing the same thing over and over when making the song.

[b-lam]

Depends what kind of tune it is totally...

If it's a looper (i.e you've got 16 bars you want to make into a whole tune) then for me it's always going to be changing the ambient noises, maybe gradually shifting filters/effects on the lead bits and drum fills/changes in rhythm.

Most of the tunes I make now seem to have a verse/chorus structure, so I usually introduce a strong melodic element in the 'chorus' and change the bass pattern to fit, with a verse that is more monotone and centred around effects/ambience.

Sometimes the simple steadily adding/subtracting elements works really well, been noticing a lot of ramadanman's productions show this working well for dubstep tempo.

[legend4ry]

Depends what kind of tune it is totally...

If it's a looper (i.e you've got 16 bars you want to make into a whole tune) then for me it's always going to be changing the ambient noises, maybe gradually shifting filters/effects on the lead bits and drum fills/changes in rhythm.

Most of the tunes I make now seem to have a verse/chorus structure, so I usually introduce a strong melodic element in the 'chorus' and change the bass pattern to fit, with a verse that is more monotone and centred around effects/ambience.

Sometimes the simple steadily adding/subtracting elements works really well, been noticing a lot of ramadanman's productions show this working well for dubstep tempo.

Funny you should say that because I am very much getting into very strong, well made chorus's in more popular music and older 60s-80s stuff and I have often thought that the verse-chorus-verse-chorus-verse structure would work immensely in dubstep - if done properly but have never attempted it

[alphacat]

Verse/Chorus/Verse can absolutely work in dubstep!

I try to make tunes with parts, like the songs I grew up listening to (all kinds of rock, mostly, w/ some reggae, blues, and other bits).

One of the most boring things [to me] about a lot of electronic music - and hip-hop too, for that matter - is taking one little progression of chords or a riff, whatever... and then looping it for 7 fucking minutes, maybe with occasional ½-bar dropouts for effect.

(Little Satan says GRRR! to this...)

Now, just like everything else - there are exceptions in the form of tunes that do exactly this, and yet still sound cool.

The overwhelming majority of songs that do this do not sound cool, however.

It's all about dynamics, flow, feel: each song should take you on a little trip, so to speak, and not be a sonic treadmill for you to run in place at exactly 138 BPM for as long as you can stand it.

Which is also not to say that Verse/Chorus/Verse or any other 'traditional' forms are the only way to go either;

there's all kinds of ways of approaching arrangement and progression, from Eno's "Oblique Strategies" cards based on the I-Ching... to John Cage using coin tosses, dice, and other random-generation methods of determining final layout of a piece... to just taking notes on songs you like, taking apart their structure, and using that knowledge to build your own.

[antics]

I like to have a group of four drum beats structured A,B,A,C. Each 8 bars long

and then have a lead synth structured A,B,A,C but each 32 bars long

[legend4ry]

I agree with most things said in this topic - while this section of the forum seems to focus on making sounds and mixing - I personally believe that writing music has nothing to do with the sounds you're using/making and how they're sounding within the mix..

Take compositions purely written for Piano - one instrument and plenty of progression what is not boring at all.. While my knowledge on 'crafting' is just a little above average in my opinion ( I know my way around most types of synthesis and can get 'most' of the sounds I want out of each of those ) I keep thinking back to the general characteristics of the track..

1) Where is it going.
2) Is where its going working.
3) Would the instrument parts (I.E everything minus drums) sound good enough on their own
4) Is it pleasing to play within a set and for headphone at home
5) Do I actually enjoy the track, sonically and structurally
6) If I was reading the score of the track, would I want to play it.

And following these questions I often find myself working a lot faster because I am not just doing "what sounds good" i'm asking.. "why does it sound good"

I personally thing progression becomes a huge factor when I think like this.

But then again - you have to ask yourself, are you writing music or making beats the two are completely different.

[b-lam]

@legendary: it seems like you are saying that progression has nothing to do with the sounds you're using/effects...

obviously this is not the be all and end all of making pleasing progression, but I think it has huge relevance.

[legend4ry]

@legendary: it seems like you are saying that progression has nothing to do with the sounds you're using/effects...

obviously this is not the be all and end all of making pleasing progression, but I think it has huge relevance.

Well I am speaking musically more than sonically, obviously progression works on both fronts but making the stuff interesting musically comes before you make it sonically interesting - no? Because if you just have FX and nothing playing you'll have silence unless you're using some mad compression overdrive whats playing fuzz. I use a lot of volume automation to bring in/take out sounds rather than stopping them dead and use lots of subtle panning and filter automation too but I find them being more of the "icing on the cake" personally.

[babylonjunkies]

when i first started making tunes, the songs had pure versebridgechorus progression, but then again so did my hiphop beats. i think thats just coming from playing in bands and instruments.

now im trying to tone that down and do it more subtly, slowly bringing in elements so its heavier rather than damn right different. some o my old tunes sound like four different songs wedged together. check out my myspace for the track one thing - thats basically verse chorus.

[karmacazee]

I like to make my tunes 'go somewhere', so usually I'll try and put in some kind of crescendo, like the peak of the song, after some verses and choruses that build up to it. I like to build layers too, so I usually add an extra sound each section. The top two tunes in my Myspaz demonstrate this.

I don't like to shoot my musical load too early either, so i try and save the best bit till later on in the song, which is a bit of a guff because aa lot of Dj's only listen to the first and second drop... well, a couple of the ones I know anyway....

The last few tunes I've worked on tend to have this kind of structure progressing in 16 or 32 bar sections:

DJ friendly intro > Main chorus > Verse > Chorus slighlty altered > Breakdown > New Section > New section slightly altered > Verse > wind down bit > outro....

Or something to that effect...

[b-lam]

^^^with you on everything but the down syndrome bit

[b-lam]

@legendary: it seems like you are saying that progression has nothing to do with the sounds you're using/effects...

obviously this is not the be all and end all of making pleasing progression, but I think it has huge relevance.

Well I am speaking musically more than sonically, obviously progression works on both fronts but making the stuff interesting musically comes before you make it sonically interesting - no? Because if you just have FX and nothing playing you'll have silence unless you're using some mad compression overdrive whats playing fuzz. I use a lot of volume automation to bring in/take out sounds rather than stopping them dead and use lots of subtle panning and filter automation too but I find them being more of the "icing on the cake" personally.

Huge oversimplification by saying that making something sonically interesting=adding effects.

I know a few sick producers who won't lay down a melody/pattern until they have made all the sounds (i.e drum samples collected, synth patches programmed etc). They focus on the melody after they have the sounds lined up.

TBH I think separating music vs. sounds is just going to limit you. I reckon it's best to 'feel your way around' a tune assembling it as it goes.

Anyway somewhat offtopic.

[legend4ry]

@legendary: it seems like you are saying that progression has nothing to do with the sounds you're using/effects...

obviously this is not the be all and end all of making pleasing progression, but I think it has huge relevance.

Well I am speaking musically more than sonically, obviously progression works on both fronts but making the stuff interesting musically comes before you make it sonically interesting - no? Because if you just have FX and nothing playing you'll have silence unless you're using some mad compression overdrive whats playing fuzz. I use a lot of volume automation to bring in/take out sounds rather than stopping them dead and use lots of subtle panning and filter automation too but I find them being more of the "icing on the cake" personally.

Huge oversimplification by saying that making something sonically interesting=adding effects.

I know a few sick producers who won't lay down a melody/pattern until they have made all the sounds (i.e drum samples collected, synth patches programmed etc). They focus on the melody after they have the sounds lined up.

TBH I think separating music vs. sounds is just going to limit you. I reckon it's best to 'feel your way around' a tune assembling it as it goes.

Anyway somewhat offtopic.

I see what you're saying - but I am speaking more about writing music, like writing down scores instead of tapping keys on your favourite preset you made a few hours earlier and building from there I guess we both see creating music differently.

[serox]

I am shite at making music but I play records every week so thought I would have a quick look through some of the myspace tracks on this thread. I see so many people on here on their high horse talking about how do things like they are making serious music. Sadly there was not a single track I would play/buy:oops: Some nice production but hardly any hook or anything that stood out or was unique.

This thread needs less talk and more music. Stop being anal and make some tunes.

[POND LIFE]

^well said.