better mixdowns with compressor on EVERY channel.

[trike12]

I went to a production class yesterday and the "teacher" told me that i could improve my mixdowns a lot by putting a compressor on every channel, just a little, threshold -10 ratio 2:1 or something, more on the drums propably, because it would make the tune easier to mix.
my thoughts are that this first of all kills dynamics but if it isnt something you hear very much does that really matter?
my second though was that people tend to talk about that they have made a good mix and have enough headroom left then they can start compressing, have i heard right?

Im really confused about this subject as you can propably hear...
the reason i doubt it is because the teacher produces house and doesnt really know what dubstep is.

Does it make the tune easier to mix without eating to much dynamics?
does this apply to dubstep?
opinions?

sorry for my very flat english..

[decklyn]

I don't know. I used to use compressors but I only use them for dynamics control now really. If a bass is all over the place or something I might apply compressor to make it easier to mix but other than that I don't really use it much. I'll tend to distort if I'm looking for character with reduced dynamics.
I find I don't need compression to make tunes sound big *shrugs*
Maybe someone would suggest I try it on a tunes though? Posted sound for point of reference. 0 compression.
Soundcloud

[lowpass]

It's just another mixing style, every engineer/producer has their own way of doing things.

If you feel that the tracks need compressing on every single channel then knock yourself out, some guys prefer to take a more natural approach.

some people like to use lots of stages of compression because it means they can get a lot of volume out of the mix before it gets to the mastering stage, which can make the extra boost in volume then a little more transparent.

Sending audio through Anything will degrade it in some way though so I'd question just setting up compression on everything for the sake of it. Try it out, do an A/B comparison test (at the same volume) and see if it is doing the track any favours

[trike12]

@ deckley: ive never used compression that much and never felt i needed it, but since yesterday ive felt confusion.

It's just another mixing style, every engineer/producer has their own way of doing things.

If you feel that the tracks need compressing on every single channel then knock yourself out, some guys prefer to take a more natural approach.

some people like to use lots of stages of compression because it means they can get a lot of volume out of the mix before it gets to the mastering stage, which can make the extra boost in volume then a little more transparent.

Sending audio through Anything will degrade it in some way though so I'd question just setting up compression on everything for the sake of it. Try it out, do an A/B comparison test (at the same volume) and see if it is doing the track any favours

yeah I like to keep things more natural, putting a compressor on every channel really goes against the Less is often more principle, wich really sound right to me, of course nothing is "right" and its just a thought, just like you say i have a hard time seeing why i should put a compressor on something kist for the sake of doing it.

another thing he told me about, that i havent been using at all before is sidechaining to gain space which i know have been discussed and is disliked in the sub volume thread, say i have a snare that clashes with a midrange bass, but if i eq the snare up and the bass down or reversed, i loose some of the essential sound of either element, why wouldnt i just sidechain here, please prove me wrong..

[lowpass]

Things like sidechaining is generally used (in your example as a work around)

the higher up you sort things, then generally the better they sound (again though depends if you are going for that pumping effect)

From bottom to top in the signal chain, things you can do to sort your situation: -

Sidechaining (will duck the bass for the snare like you said but can be audible and depends if its the sound you want)

Automating volume (will achieve a more natural way of doing the same thing, again could be noticable)

Using EQ to carve out the masked frequencies (you can use this if you use a decent/the right eq, might work, might not)

Choosing the right samples/synths in the first place (will give you an even more natural sound because you might not even need to do anything, problem solved)

Changing the arrangement (snare and synth won't play at the same time, so you can just whatever sample you want and it won't clash with your synth)

[morro_e]

hey i used to not to like compression

but nowadays i put compressors on every single channel and not just little ones but big compression - something with 12:4 and - 30 on the threshold - this improved my mixes as they sound much cleaner now

but yeah, not every single bit needs it i guess but it cleans the stuff for sure

[trike12]

Things like sidechaining is generally used (in your example as a work around)

the higher up you sort things, then generally the better they sound (again though depends if you are going for that pumping effect)

From bottom to top in the signal chain, things you can do to sort your situation: -

Sidechaining (will duck the bass for the snare like you said but can be audible and depends if its the sound you want)

Automating volume (will achieve a more natural way of doing the same thing, again could be noticable)

Using EQ to carve out the masked frequencies (you can use this if you use a decent/the right eq, might work, might not)

Choosing the right samples/synths in the first place (will give you an even more natural sound because you might not even need to do anything, problem solved)

Changing the arrangement (snare and synth won't play at the same time, so you can just whatever sample you want and it won't clash with your synth)

Say i sidechain the snare to an eq on the bass, so that the bass goes down 2 db or so when the snare hits, my teacher told me that would fix the problem and that it wouldn't be noticeable unless you REALLY listening for it.
(btw, in my example EQ wasn't an option, this is if everything else was as it should be and sounding right, pretty "right" synth, "pretty" right sample, i really have a hard time believing anyone has ever found PERFECT samples?)

[q23]

It does not apply to sounds that are already pre-produced samples as they are the SAME SOUND each time they are played anyhow. An example would be a snare drum sample. It is the same sample each time it comes around in the mix, and not some drummer hitting the snare slightly differently each time it is used. If you have real analog synth bass or someone doing vocals, then I can see compressing the channels somewhat for easier leveling.

Alot of my teachers were from traditional production studios, where EVERYTHING gets run through the tube pre-amps and then compressed. Amplifiers are ALWAYS miced on the top set of speakers, multitracking is ALWAYS done in the analog realm and not digital etc.....

The way I see it....

Rule #1: There are no rules, only guidelines.

Alot of new sounds in music are created by people who think outside the rules box. See: Dub in the 70s.

[miek cba]

I went to a production class yesterday and the "teacher" told me that i could improve my mixdowns a lot by putting a compressor on every channel

dumb, if anyone ever tells you anything will magically improve your mixdowns by using something on every single channel without even listening to decide if that element requires it first... they're talking shit.

[Sharmaji]

the question isn't "do i compress," the question is "what super-sexy compressor do i use on this material and then talk about on the web so that people can drool"

like "man we sent those congas to our fairchild and holy shit they just popped it was magical"

[macc]

I went to a production class yesterday and the "teacher" told me that i could improve my mixdowns a lot by putting a compressor on every channel

dumb, if anyone ever tells you anything will magically improve your mixdowns by using something on every single channel without even listening to decide if that element requires it first... they're talking shit.

Hahaha!

So glad someone said that before I did.

[decklyn]

the question isn't "do i compress," the question is "what super-sexy compressor do i use on this material and then talk about on the web so that people can drool"

like "man we sent those congas to our fairchild and holy shit they just popped it was magical"

Is there a free virtual fairchild plugin??? no??? awwww....

[futures_untold]

I went to a production class yesterday and the "teacher" told me that i could improve my mixdowns a lot by putting a compressor on every channel, just a little, threshold -10 ratio 2:1 or something,

True.

This is because you're reducing the dynamic range of the audio you're compressing. Dynamic range is the difference between the loudest peak of your audio and the quietest part.

More compression on the drums would make the tune easier to mix.

True, but still at the loss of dynamic range. Compressing drums is an artform, especially as different compressor settings will accentuate different parts of the drum sound. A low threshold and a heavy compression ratio will make the quieter parts of the sound seem comparitively louder compared to the louder parts. The louder parts will have been brought down in volume by the compressor (compressed).

When talking about compression, it is important to understand the concept of headroom and also how frequencies can interact and change each other. Headroom is how many decibels you have left before your kit is overloaded and distorts the audio output. The same frequency added twice will double in volume.

If you have one kick drum that is so loud it is nearly distorting (redlining), then how will you get a 'clean' mix when you add new elements to the mix?

Remember that all a compressor is simply a posh volume control. It allows you to tell the volume control when to turn down and when not to. The threshold setting and the compression ratio are the two important controls that make a compressor function. Audio that is louder than the threshold you have specified will be reduced in volume by the ratio you have set using the ratio control.

A ratio of 2:1 will reduce the volume of the audio passing through the compressor by two decibels for every one decibel the audio goes over the threshold. Thus, audio that exceeds the threshold by 4dB will be reduced by 2dB and will leave the compressor 2dB quieter than it came in.

Kick drums have very low frequencies. They can easily 'distort' or 'muddy' other sounds with a higher frequency than the kick drum. This happens because as the speaker compresses and rarifies (goes in and out), it takes longer for the lower frequencies to go in and out than the higher frequencies. How can a speaker go in and out slowly for the bass sound at the same time as trying to go in and out quickly for the higher frequencies without the sound being distorted? (It can't, thus we often describe overly bassy tracks as 'muddy').

my thoughts are that this first of all kills dynamics but if it isnt something you hear very much does that really matter?

Compression does kill dynamics. As others have pointed out above, if the sound in question doesn't need it, why bother?

I personally do agree with your teacher here. I always put gentle compression on each and every individual element in my mix. I don't need to, but with a high threshold around -3dB and a light compression ratio of 2:1, the audio is gently 'flattend' giving me marginally more headroom. Having more headroom means I can make my mix louder more easily, but this doesn't mean it is 'better'!

My second though was that people tend to talk about that they have made a good mix and have enough headroom left then they can start compressing, have i heard right?

You are wrong on this point.

If they don't have enough headroom, they start compressing. What they should be doing, is turning everything down on each channel fader. This will regain headroom without the loss of dynamics.

If people have mixed a good tune without compression and have spare headroom, then they can turn every channel up to make the mix louder by using up the spare headroom.

If the mix still isn't loud enough, some people resort to compressing the entire mix to create extra headroom at the expense of dynamics. With the reduced dynamic range, they can turn up the whole mix by as many decibels they regained through compression.

Im really confused about this subject as you can propably hear...
the reason i doubt it is because the teacher produces house and doesnt really know what dubstep is.

Does it make the tune easier to mix without eating to much dynamics?
does this apply to dubstep?
opinions?

sorry for my very flat english..

Compression does make some things easier to mix through reduced dynamic range. Often, reducing the dynamic range of your audio is a highly personal creative choice. Occassionally it is an easy method of controlling erratic audio, like a poorly recorded vocal where the singer has moved towards and away from the mic during the recording session.

Just because your teacher uses compression, it doesn't mean that you 'need' to. Likewise, compression is often used in dubstep production as it is useful for controlling dynamics and as a creative effect (see 'gating', 'pumping' and 'saturation'). Whether you choose to compress your audio parts individually or as a whole should be based upon your creative aims for each song or sound.

Here are two threads I recommend you read.

Compression basics ---> http://www.dubstepforum.com/compression ... 80059.html

Headroom & mixing basics ---> http://www.dubstepforum.com/this-thread ... 74832.html

[wirez]

I'd listen to the house guy, the principle rules are pretty similar to Dubstep, they're both (different, of course, but) forms of electronic dance music, and from what I've noticed recently a lot of house elements are being picked up in Dubstep.

[trike12]

Thank you very much future for taking you the time! you practically wrote an essay of feedback.

Dont really know what to say anymore, cant overcome all this Atm.. Gonna re-read this thread a couple of times and try to understand and experiment with these things then i propably (almost certainly...) have a bunch of questions again..

ive read the sub volume thread through a couple of times and it greatly improved my mixing skills, i still read on it pretty often, its hard remembering everything mentioned in it.

Thank you for the compression thread!
i do know how a compressor work, but theres some good info in there anyways.

I went to a production class yesterday and the "teacher" told me that i could improve my mixdowns a lot by putting a compressor on every channel

dumb, if anyone ever tells you anything will magically improve your mixdowns by using something on every single channel without even listening to decide if that element requires it first... they're talking shit.

Hahaha!

So glad someone said that before I did.

i doubt it too, thats kinda why i made this thread..

[macc]

There's soooo many things I couldwaffle about here but I'm so bloody busy

Top stuff though Futures

[Sharmaji]

putting a barely-there compressor on each channel is basically a lazy-ass way of writing automation in a mix. Bruce Swedien's written a ton about how he barely ever uses compression-- he goes thru hell and back to capture every transient he can of a sound, why would he want to wipe those away? he DOES, however, record tremendous amounts of automation in a mix, changing the level of the snare track with every hit.

so basically, it's a lazy way of controlling volume.

my thoughts on compression in a mixdown are simple: they should either be changing something, or controlling something. get a synth sound that's got a ton of lfo-controlled frequency stuff going on, and reign in those dynamic changes until you have a sound that's got a lot of motion but not a ton of change in energy. Or, completely destroy a snare drum's attack, almost turning the sound into reverb, and then mix it in in parallel.

to control shit, i'd rather just brickwall limit... if i've got, say, a live shaker part that's really in the groove but there's some peaks that stick out, i'd rather just shave the top 3db off the whole performance and take the volume down, rather than change the dynamic space of it. limiting you can get away with barely noticing on the right material; compression almost always changes the character (and thus, emotion) of a sound. this is a good thing-- when used right!

What's scary is when you come across something like a distressor or the GML compressor... you can take like 25db off of a vocal while tracking w/ a distressor, bypass it in and out and wonder how the hell it can be working so hard and you JUST DON'T HEAR IT.

so basically... i'd be wary of compressing just for ease of mixing. Mixing is both an art and a science; it's not supposed to be easy, you're supposed to be creating something that will emotionally affect people. A painter doesn't just use "green," why should you just use "a compressor?" you've got EQ tools to control how things sound; you've got dynamic tools to control how things feel. Don't sell 'em short!

[my_fickle_eye]

i think compression like that is probably a good idea for live musicians playing insturments, but when im using a software synth i dont usually find the need unless the velocity is changed. it can be annoying for frequencies which arnt as easy for the ear to pick up? cause when i do it for a low synth line the levels can sound really out of wack to my ear at a guess. Could just be my shot ears and lack of acoustic treatment in my room though?

Having said that i will sometimes use it for higher pitched synths and i do allways use it for my drums n such

[Littlefoot]

I rarely rarely rarely rarely compress individual channels,

Im more of a group the different sonic partnerd together and compress those badboys boys..

Remember your sample pack drums are usually compressed already..

I can see where this technique becomes very relevant in pop music where there are acoustic and electric instruments together mind.

[deadly_habit]

if it's a sloppy mix then compressors on every might help
i just teched a call the other day where someone thought an avalon mastering channel piece would make mastering easy
mastering is an art and there is no simple solution hell even mixdown
if your gonna squash away all your dynamics might as well use a limiter on the master bus
otherwise individual compression on chans that need it, and if you have skills multiband on master
otherwise leave it be
my 2 cents