Threads regarding torrents and filesharing.

[dubway]

this is actually something i was addressing in previous posts. there is the actual ownership of the forum by dubway and the moderators he has chosen to run tings. and then there are thousands of people engaging in discussion on the forum. so money/power trumps all everytime, and thousands of people's opinions and contributions to the community become null and void?

i realize dubway could just pull his dough and the forum could die like that, but since we are all autonomous creatures, we would just adapt and move to a different place. so then...is it the forum itself that is keeping the community afloat? or is it the thousands of individuals that makes the forum an actual community? are they symbiotic? or simply mutually beneficial?

and if the role of the individuals who compose the community plays a critical part in the survival of the forum as a vital resource, than the "ownership" of the forum becomes a question of "what do you value more?"

so to boil this all down to its essense: i believe, while enabled by the actual software/servers (paid for by an industrious individual) that compose "the forum", this community has grown to a point where it is not necessarily bound only to the rules it had no part in creating, and that an ever-evolving contribution (from healthy debate to polls to suggestions) to the rule structure by the community itself is critical for its survival as a friendly AND orderly "place".

tyrannies don't generally keep people in line. they just breed resentment and eventually cause rifts.

there ya have my philosophy. flame away.

i am accused for tyranny!? i?! who was the first one who stood up when this thread was pulled offline! (yeah, you can quote me on that! if i was asked, this thread wouldnt be pulled in the first place.)

actually, it is the lack of tyranny that let this happen!

and do you know why?

because i respect some ppl here and what they have done for this scene and for this forum!

and because of democracy!
because moderators never act before they all voice thier oppinion.

and because we follow the rules.
when they are not the best - we change them (like we will now), but we follow them.

and your talk about "ownership" is total bulshit, so i will tell you this, sapphic_beats, fuck off!

[djshiva]

Yeah reading that just annoyed me because was trying to justify it when there are clearly other ways to find a sound, and besides you need to know what u are looking for when downloading so he clearly knew what artist to download!

Anyway bacon sandwich time

this is why i miss barefiles. *sniff* got to hear tons of tunes, for free, and then get em when (or if!) they came out.

[djshiva]

this is actually something i was addressing in previous posts. there is the actual ownership of the forum by dubway and the moderators he has chosen to run tings. and then there are thousands of people engaging in discussion on the forum. so money/power trumps all everytime, and thousands of people's opinions and contributions to the community become null and void?

i realize dubway could just pull his dough and the forum could die like that, but since we are all autonomous creatures, we would just adapt and move to a different place. so then...is it the forum itself that is keeping the community afloat? or is it the thousands of individuals that makes the forum an actual community? are they symbiotic? or simply mutually beneficial?

and if the role of the individuals who compose the community plays a critical part in the survival of the forum as a vital resource, than the "ownership" of the forum becomes a question of "what do you value more?"

so to boil this all down to its essense: i believe, while enabled by the actual software/servers (paid for by an industrious individual) that compose "the forum", this community has grown to a point where it is not necessarily bound only to the rules it had no part in creating, and that an ever-evolving contribution (from healthy debate to polls to suggestions) to the rule structure by the community itself is critical for its survival as a friendly AND orderly "place".

tyrannies don't generally keep people in line. they just breed resentment and eventually cause rifts.

there ya have my philosophy. flame away.

i am accused for tyranny!? i?! who was the first one who stood up when this thread was pulled offline! (yeah, you can quote me on that! if i was asked, this thread wouldnt be pulled in the first place.)

actually, it is the lack of tyranny that let this happen!

and do you know why?

because i respect some ppl here and what they have done for this scene and for this forum!

and because of democracy!
because moderators never act before they all voice thier oppinion.

and because we follow the rules.
when they are not the best - we change them (like we will now), but we follow them.

and your talk about "ownership" is total bulshit, so i will tell you this, sapphic_beats, fuck off!

dude, you need to chill. i phrased my ideas in the most diplomatic way possible, with the intent only to create discussion, not flame. i didn't call you a tyrant at all. read that again. i said that tyrannies don't keep people in line. that's a pretty general statement based on a very real idea.

i didn't tell you to fuck off. i did not call anyone names, and i certainly did not come at anyone in an accusatory manner. i'm sorry if that's the way you took it, because that was certainly not the intention.

i appreciate boomnoise and seckle posting up in here and giving a little bit more of a frame of reference regarding the mindset of a moderator. that sheds light on the policies and their creation, and i do welcome hearing from the mods when things like this crop up.

my intent was only to think and invite others to think along with me. of course, thinking is what usually gets me in trouble. after all, as emma goldman said, ""The most unpardonable sin in society is independence of thought."

[seckle]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=18929
it's been edited in several posts as per our rules, which have been newly revised and agreed upon by a majority of mods and admin. from this point on all threads relating to p2p will be moderated according to the following system:

PIRACY (Dubplates, MP3, Software,Link's to piracy sites.):

Threads generally discussing p2p issues and it's online culture are welcomed.

Threads on ANY part of the forum (profiles and sigs included); revealing,hinting or linking to copyrighted software, movies, music or other protected data ;will be handled by the Admin and Moderators in the following methods:

• -If a thread is full of numerous posts filled with questionable p2p related info it may be deleted outright with a full explanation posted to the thread starter as well as the main forum.
  
  -A thread with only a few posts regarding questionable p2p related info will be edited and left online.
  
  -A thread with p2p related info that generates complaints sent to the Admin or Moderators will be deleted outright. In certain situations the Admin and Moderators reserve the right to do this without explanation.

Names of p2p Networks (Soulseek, Gnutella, Napster, etc) are allowed in normal discussion so long as they DON'T contain ANY specific information as listed below:
-Ripping/Posting Group Names
-Specific Rooms or Discussion Groups
-Torrents or Seed Links and Names
-Directories
-Released/Unreleased Music located on Specifically Named Networks

People continually posting questionable p2p info will be permanently banned from the forum.

[Littlefoot]

if it wasnt for sharing software I wouldnt goto all dubstep raves in Notts right now or buy any dubs to be honest.

I own a shit tonne of records for a just turned 20 year old and I owe a lot to filesharing.

There is a big difference between someone hungry to check out new music with not much cash, and someone who is greedy and a stingeybastard.

I can understand that if you were downloading the new Beyonce album but your not, your stealing music from people in a small scene that in some cases are on this forum!

If you want to hear dubstep as a sound your better off listening to the radio or downloading mixes, fuck if you want to hear the whole track go to myspace or virb!!!

If your cool with that, thats up to you.

Clearly you are not "hungry to check out new music"

You are "greedy and a stingeybastard"

did you completely ignore my point?

I download stuff to check it out, and If I like it I buy it..

and more importantly I am 100% "supporting" the scene because by downloading tunes I can get into em and then go see that producer/dj/mc play at a rave near me, which I very much do. That is physical and financial support.

Also believe it or not people don't only listen to dubstep, I have about 600-700 records here in my room of which about 99% are independant artists or rather bought from independant/small second hand shops, of lots of different types of music.

Are you seriously suggesting that If i download 10 dubs and buy 5 I am supporting the scene less than someone who buys 1 or 2 but doesn't download any?

I would also just like to re-adress something I kept stchum on in the other thread about people buying more than one copy of record for resale purposes which is completely backwards if were talking about the ethics of purchasing music.

I will continue to download music illegally, and buy it if I like it, and not listen/delete it/pass it on/whatever if I dont.

Why would I want to support the artists who's dubs I dont like anyway?

[Littlefoot]

Anyway, would like to throw this up:

does filesharing actually damage or increase sales of independant/underground records?

is that even the point?

I think the black and white viewers on here are seeing anyone who downloads off SLSK or Torrents is sitting there laughing going "AHHAHAH FREEE DUBS!! or something".. which is absolutely ridiculous, infact being a member of an independant scene as exciting as Dubstep, it's very difficult to not get excited and go out and buy stuff.. I think there is a strange witch hunt like attitude emerging which seeks to "purify" this kind of scene, but can only segregate (sp!?) in practice.

[feasible_weasel]

Anyway, would like to throw this up:

does filesharing actually damage or increase sales of independant/underground records?

is that even the point?

I think the black and white viewers on here are seeing anyone who downloads off SLSK or Torrents is sitting there laughing going "AHHAHAH FREEE DUBS!! or something".. which is absolutely ridiculous, infact being a member of an independant scene as exciting as Dubstep, it's very difficult to not get excited and go out and buy stuff.. I think there is a strange witch hunt like attitude emerging which seeks to "purify" this kind of scene, but can only segregate (sp!?) in practice.

I can guarantee this has hurt Dubstep Allstars 5's sales
its crazy that its been finished there are torrents flying around.
the tunes are going to be bare old on it.
im gonna buy the cd,but u can see why otherwise loyal customers have d/l it.
the overal point,is that people will buy X amount of cd's a year/month.
and anyways.u can get dj mixes anywhere.
u dont even need to buy cd's,so i consider those mixes with the latest tunes the biggest worry to music makers.

[the wiggle baron]

Im still of the opinion that this place is run by dubway and mods.

They make the rules, we follow them or fuck off.

[shonky]

Im still of the opinion that this place is run by dubway and mods.

They make the rules, we follow them or fuck off.

Yeah exactly. Gets a bit tired hearing people shout "fascism" everytime someone does something outside the pretty liberal rules of the forum. Dubway's sorting out the finances and we got a pretty nice place here - try experiencing a real dictatorship some time before belittling the term on petty quibbles.

If someone came round my house and told me I was a tyrant for not respecting my wishes, I'd probably tell them to fuck off too (I know this wasn't what you were saying Shiva, just noticed a lot of people doing this lately).

[batfink]

Im still of the opinion that this place is run by dubway and mods.

They make the rules, we follow them or fuck off.

Yeah exactly. Gets a bit tired hearing people shout "fascism" everytime someone does something outside the pretty liberal rules of the forum. Dubway's sorting out the finances and we got a pretty nice place here - try experiencing a real dictatorship some time before belittling the term on petty quibbles.

If someone came round my house and told me I was a tyrant for not respecting my wishes, I'd probably tell them to fuck off too (I know this wasn't what you were saying Shiva, just noticed a lot of people doing this lately).

FASCIST.