Drums - compressor or transient shaper?

[Bass_Jacka]

I've been advised to use a transient shaper on my drums to give them more bite/punch on the initial hit of the drum, however I thought this was achieved using a compressor?

What's the difference between a compressor and transient shaper when it comes to drums? Do they do pretty much the same thing?

Cheers!

[test_recordings]

Transient shapers affect the envelope by making the volume go up or down faster or slower, e.g. making the attack faster then slowing down the decay. A compressor would slow down the attack and decay over a certain decibel level, making it more consistent. A transient shaper can act as a compressor and an expander, you will be able to have a lot of fun tweaking it but it'll take a bit longer to work out

[Bass_Jacka]

Thanks for the reply mate! So in terms of getting punchy/snappy kicks & snares, what would be the best tool for this? Transient shaper or compressor? Or a combination of both?

[SunkLo]

Transient shapers affect the envelope by making the volume go up or down faster or slower, e.g. making the attack faster then slowing down the decay. A compressor would slow down the attack and decay over a certain decibel level, making it more consistent. A transient shaper can act as a compressor and an expander, you will be able to have a lot of fun tweaking it but it'll take a bit longer to work out

Not exactly, a transient shaper's detection circuit works on speed. Whereas a compressor's detection circuit works on volume. With a transient shaper, even if you have a quiet sharp burst of sound, it will be detected as a transient in the same way a loud sharp burst of sound would be. A slow increase in gain will not be detected as a transient. Once the shaper splits the signal into attack and decay portions, they're scaled up or down in gain depending on how you set the controls.

If you're just trying to sharpen up something, a transient shaper is pretty easy to dial in. If you're looking to only sharpen up the loudest bits, you'd do better with a compressor. Set the threshold according to what you want to sharpen, set the ratio fairly high, and adjust the attack to set the length of the transient that gets through. You might find better results with a more aggressive compressor in parallel to your dry signal. The compressor will be more finicky than the transient shaper.

Also don't forget the role of EQ. Frequency and time are inherently linked.

[Sharmaji]

very rarely one or the other if looking to add "bite."

compressor, then transient work before limiter on the drum buss.

also to clarify:

Compressors work based on the change in voltage that's going through the circuitry; transient shapers work based on the RATE of change of that voltage.

[claudedefaren]

Good posts ITT, nothing more really need be said

[test_recordings]

Transient shapers affect the envelope by making the volume go up or down faster or slower, e.g. making the attack faster then slowing down the decay. A compressor would slow down the attack and decay over a certain decibel level, making it more consistent. A transient shaper can act as a compressor and an expander, you will be able to have a lot of fun tweaking it but it'll take a bit longer to work out

Not exactly, a transient shaper's detection circuit works on speed. Whereas a compressor's detection circuit works on volume. With a transient shaper, even if you have a quiet sharp burst of sound, it will be detected as a transient in the same way a loud sharp burst of sound would be. A slow increase in gain will not be detected as a transient. Once the shaper splits the signal into attack and decay portions, they're scaled up or down in gain depending on how you set the controls.

Ahh okay I didn't realise it doesn't work on the whole envelope. Surely even an increase in gain up to a certain point will be registered as a transient, even if it's slow? That's what a transient really is, the first shift from increase to decrease in volume after the onset of a sound.

[SunkLo]

No a transient is a sharp increase in sound. A slow swell of volume will be ignored, even if it hits 0dB. Transient shapers work with speed, not volume.

[Icetickle]

If you compared the transient shaping and the parallel compression this thread would actually make some sense. Normal compression and boosting the attack of the sample in the transient shaper are two opposite things.

[SunkLo]

Well, I wouldn't say they're opposite. Boosting attack is the equivalent of squishing the decay which is basically what a compressor does.

[test_recordings]

No a transient is a sharp increase in sound. A slow swell of volume will be ignored, even if it hits 0dB. Transient shapers work with speed, not volume.

Okay if that's what the term has come to mean in audio engineering terms. I was thinking of the standard English definition of something impermanent and changing

Well, I wouldn't say they're opposite. Boosting attack is the equivalent of squishing the decay which is basically what a compressor does.

How would boosting the attack squish the decay though? Surely the decay would also be enhanced in that it has further to fall? In the same time frame, or am I confusing this with an expander? I'm genuinely interested in how they work, please link some articles or something I'll just go read up on it myself because I don't fully understand it

Found a few here (including a DSF topic hahaha):
http://atoragon.blogspot.jp/2012/03/how ... haper.html
http://www.dubstepforum.com/forum/viewt ... p?t=204986

[SunkLo]

Transient means something that doesn't last long = short burst of sound. A long slow swell of volume wouldn't fit that definition.

When I say decay in this scenario, I'm referring to the portion of the signal that isn't the attack. In other words, the body of the sound; everything but the transient. Most transient shapers (SPL's comes to mind) give you a gain knob for both parts of the signal. All it does is split things into one or the other and then scale em. I can see how you'd be confused, since boosting the transient of a signal would increase its dynamic range. When you think of a compressor, you'd expect it to do the opposite of that. But the attack phase needs to be factored in. If I dial in a compressor to absolutely squash the piss out of something, but let the transients through untouched with a slower attack time, I'm actually expanding the dynamic range of the signal. The difference between the transients and the body of the sound will actually be greater than before. Although the body of the sound (ignoring the transients that are sneaking through) will have less dynamic range, like you'd expect.

Bit of a mindfuck, I know.

[Bass_Jacka]

Some great advice and info here, but quite confusing lol! This is definitely something I need to educate myself on.

Cheers people!