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futures_untold wrote: For a system that is mooted as being 'easy', so many little things don't seem to be present at first glance.

When I switched to Mac 5 years ago, it took me about two weeks to get used to OSX. It IS easy and the workflow is way faster than in Windows (don't know about Windows 7 though, never used it).

Never regretted that I paid a couple of hundred euros more. It's well worth it in my opinion, I still use the same machine. The only reason I'm going to buy a new Mac soon is that all the new software is Intel only.

As a long time user of both, and I've got ep beat by a year or so on the apple ][, this I feel, is where the attitude from pc users towards trendy apple boys comes from - apples are roughly 4x times the price for roughly the same product. Each system has their pluses and minuses which pretty much cancel out (each proponent would probably disagree, but this is generally true).

So what is it then that justifies the 2x, or 3x or 4x? And we're talking in the thousands of dollars, not trifling sums.

The only thing to justify the price differential seems to be the cool factor, which is, in a lot of people's eyes, foolishness at best, snobbery at worst.

If the products were roughly equivalently priced, I would think this a silly debate, but when the differential is so high...

yea if microsoft made computers and not just the os it'd be a better debate

nowaysj wrote:As a long time user of both, and I've got ep beat by a year or so on the apple ][, this I feel, is where the attitude from pc users towards trendy apple boys comes from - apples are roughly 4x times the price for roughly the same product. Each system has their pluses and minuses which pretty much cancel out (each proponent would probably disagree, but this is generally true).

So what is it then that justifies the 2x, or 3x or 4x? And we're talking in the thousands of dollars, not trifling sums.

i dunno man, i just went on the Apple and Vaio websites, (procrastinating like a bastard here haha), picked the white macbook (13.3" screen) and specced it against the only 13.3" Vaio which is about the same weight and size. I tried to make the two have more or less identical configurations - the Vaio had an i3 chip against the mac's core2duo, but on the other hand the mac has some NVidia graphics thing against the vaio's built-in jobbie, and better built in sound, I'll wager.

price was more or less the same; although the mac was actually cheaper - by a whole £3! Maybe I'm not l33t enough to know that Vaio's are also for people with more money than sense, or that that particular vaio is in fact a super-badboy mean machine and doesn't bear comparison, but it seems like a fair enough balance to me?

sony is not the brand to go pc man
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... fr;Mfr_107
browse the asus stuff

I prefer Mac because of the UI and Logic, plus the fact that cracks (of which I have over £20k's worth) work flawlessly. Plus no need to worry about antivirus or third party stuff.

Basically laziness and accessibility is what it comes down to.

Here's my rig:
Intel Core i7 920
Asus P6T6 WS Revolution Mobo (integrated HD Audio)
6 GiB Mushkin 1600Mhz ram
Sapphire Vapor-X HD 4870 2GB GDDR5 PCI-E graphics card
Corsair 1000w psu
CoolerMaster V8 Cpu cooler
etc... (I have a network card with a dedicated processor that I don't even use )
I can overclock to 4.0Ghz easy and I have a lot of control with the motherboard. All the hardware works perfectly together, stable as hell, never crashed obviously.

I paid $860.
Canadian.

With Apple that'll get you what, a mighty mouse and a 512 stick of ram?
The Mac price should be enough of a deterrent for most people. I've got Ubuntu 64 and Windows 7 on my machine and I could run OSX if I felt like it, probably faster than most native Macs. In fact the other day I was considering running virtualized OSX from within Win7 just for some audio plugins.
I ain't hatin on my Mac brothers! I can understand how Apple users have an Os preference, whatever you're used to. What I don't understand is, why don't they get Hackintoshes?! As long as you do a bit of research before buying anything you'll be fine.
Sure it takes a bit of learning but that just promotes a deeper understanding of your machine.
I'm so much happier when I see the Autobots decal on the front of my case instead of an Apple because I know I didn't get robbed

/e-peen stroke

Bullshit wrote:I prefer Mac because of the UI and Logic, plus the fact that cracks (of which I have over £20k's worth) work flawlessly. Plus no need to worry about antivirus or third party stuff.

Basically laziness and accessibility is what it comes down to.

setspeed wrote:

nowaysj wrote:As a long time user of both, and I've got ep beat by a year or so on the apple ][, this I feel, is where the attitude from pc users towards trendy apple boys comes from - apples are roughly 4x times the price for roughly the same product. Each system has their pluses and minuses which pretty much cancel out (each proponent would probably disagree, but this is generally true).

So what is it then that justifies the 2x, or 3x or 4x? And we're talking in the thousands of dollars, not trifling sums.

i dunno man, i just went on the Apple and Vaio websites, (procrastinating like a bastard here haha), picked the white macbook (13.3" screen) and specced it against the only 13.3" Vaio which is about the same weight and size. I tried to make the two have more or less identical configurations - the Vaio had an i3 chip against the mac's core2duo, but on the other hand the mac has some NVidia graphics thing against the vaio's built-in jobbie, and better built in sound, I'll wager.

price was more or less the same; although the mac was actually cheaper - by a whole £3! Maybe I'm not l33t enough to know that Vaio's are also for people with more money than sense, or that that particular vaio is in fact a super-badboy mean machine and doesn't bear comparison, but it seems like a fair enough balance to me?

As I said several times earlier, the call is closer in the laptop arena. A well thought out comparison will likely get you a 2x price ratio though. Less egregious than the tower 4x, but still.

nowaysj wrote:

setspeed wrote:

nowaysj wrote:As a long time user of both, and I've got ep beat by a year or so on the apple ][, this I feel, is where the attitude from pc users towards trendy apple boys comes from - apples are roughly 4x times the price for roughly the same product. Each system has their pluses and minuses which pretty much cancel out (each proponent would probably disagree, but this is generally true).

So what is it then that justifies the 2x, or 3x or 4x? And we're talking in the thousands of dollars, not trifling sums.

i dunno man, i just went on the Apple and Vaio websites, (procrastinating like a bastard here haha), picked the white macbook (13.3" screen) and specced it against the only 13.3" Vaio which is about the same weight and size. I tried to make the two have more or less identical configurations - the Vaio had an i3 chip against the mac's core2duo, but on the other hand the mac has some NVidia graphics thing against the vaio's built-in jobbie, and better built in sound, I'll wager.

price was more or less the same; although the mac was actually cheaper - by a whole £3! Maybe I'm not l33t enough to know that Vaio's are also for people with more money than sense, or that that particular vaio is in fact a super-badboy mean machine and doesn't bear comparison, but it seems like a fair enough balance to me?

As I said several times earlier, the call is closer in the laptop arena. A well thought out comparison will likely get you a 2x price ratio though. Less egregious than the tower 4x, but still.

I dunno maybe you are right to be honest I haven't priced out Macs in a while or PC's either but I do know that Vaio's are way overpriced so dood picked the right brand to prove that PC's and Mac's are around the same price

you don't wanna do what i did and switch to mac and not be able to afford the logic studio ;p <3 i'd download it but i dont have good enough internet =[ dial up SUCKS!

i've been researching laptops for a few months now and really have no idea in what direction to go besides what is my personal preference.. i hate to say it because it seems so trendy now a days but i'd like to get a macbook pro because i hear they are very simple to use and made with quality (not saying others aren't), but i don't know if it will be able to run Reason 4 smoothly which is what i'm currently producing on using a PC. and i'd like to possibly install Logic to it too if it's capable. does anyone have any experience producing on a macbook pro or is it even possible without having to use samples and other such "shortcuts" to bypass anything the laptop is lacking? and which macbook pro do you recommend ? thanks in advance

Sworn wrote:i've been researching laptops for a few months now and really have no idea in what direction to go besides what is my personal preference.. i hate to say it because it seems so trendy now a days but i'd like to get a macbook pro because i hear they are very simple to use and made with quality (not saying others aren't), but i don't know if it will be able to run Reason 4 smoothly which is what i'm currently producing on using a PC. and i'd like to possibly install Logic to it too if it's capable. does anyone have any experience producing on a macbook pro or is it even possible without having to use samples and other such "shortcuts" to bypass anything the laptop is lacking? and which macbook pro do you recommend ? thanks in advance

Any Mac from the last 3 years will run both programs with no problems and no 'workaround/shortcuts'.

i've had my comp for 4.5 years now. i'll eventually have to get a new one. and having used macs somewhat frequently, i can't think of anything that would make me want to buy it over a pc.


mac users are interesting folks though....militant defending of the product.

qwaycee_ wrote: mac users are usually gay hairdressers named Wilbur.

Fixed

I hate using Macs, but have to admit I've only seen 'em fuck up a few times, and each time it was hardware issues rather than software crashes.

The majority of 'cheap' PC laptops are shit for music production. PCs piss all over Macs as soon as one goes for a custom build desktop though...

futures_untold wrote:
The majority of 'cheap' PC laptops are shit for music production. PCs piss all over Macs as soon as one goes for a custom build desktop though...

thats what i plan on doing...i'm somewhat technologically incapable, to a certain extent anyway. the thought of "building" my own computer seems next level

I too was scared of looking inside my tower for years, but I spent a weekend reading up on computer components so that fear has gone now.

As far as I'm aware, you need to ensure that the components will work together (which is fairly easy) and what their power draw will be.

You'll need the following:
Case (with case fans built in)
PSU
Mobo
CPU (with fan)
RAM
HD
Optical Drive
Optional graphics card
Optional soundcard
Keyboard
Mouse
Monitor.

Most components are standardised today so its easy to find out which components will be compatible with each other. Also, the connections on the motherboard are all standardised to, so it really is easy to plug everything in.

There are looads of PC builing forums with plenty of people willing to help newbs work through their first setup, along with step by step guides on building PCs.

If you can build lego, you can build a PC.

Maybe someone who has actually built computers can shed some more light here...

All depends on your situation. I'd opt for a powerful tower because I don't gig out, but for mobile DJ's and 'live' musicians, a sturdy (Mac?) lappy is essential. It's just a shame about the Mac OS...

If you're building a home studio and don't gig out, why wouldn't you get extra bang for your buck with a custom built powerhouse?

futures_untold wrote:I too was scared of looking inside my tower for years, but I spent a weekend reading up on computer components so that fear has gone now.

As far as I'm aware, you need to ensure that the components will work together (which is fairly easy) and what their power draw will be.

You'll need the following:
Case (with case fans built in)
PSU
Mobo
CPU (with fan)
RAM
HD
Optical Drive
Optional graphics card
Optional soundcard
Keyboard
Mouse
Monitor.

Most components are standardised today so its easy to find out which components will be compatible with each other. Also, the connections on the motherboard are all standardised to, so it really is easy to plug everything in.

There are looads of PC builing forums with plenty of people willing to help newbs work through their first setup, along with step by step guides on building PCs.

If you can build lego, you can build a PC.

Maybe someone who has actually built computers can shed some more light here...

varies by budget but asus mobos are my starting point