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magma wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:Also, I don't get why you would call me austistic because of this, I'm not calling anyone shallow or anything.

I didn't - check the names of the posters.

I know you didn't, just didn't bother to double post. I was reffering to anybody who would believe that.

ultraspatial wrote:I never stated that everyone thinks like me. I'm just curios to why would people enjoy these sort of things.

This is the crux. Of course we all feel different about things like death. I'm not very sentimental, but I've certainly shed tears over dead loved ones as I have ex-girlfriends... saying goodbye is strange. In both circumstances I found having friends and family around who were feeling at least similar really helped. No idea why, it just made me feel better. Didn't bring anyone back and I certainly didn't expect it to!

That's different for everybody, of course. Some might not feel anything. Some might want to be alone. Some might want to get drunk. Some might want to go to church. But whatever their reaction and choice they shouldn't have to be approached and insulted for them. It's just showing really basic respect to another human being. If you can't show enough respect to leave people alone or, if you really feel the need, to make fun of them out of earshot, then you DO deserve to be taken out of society for a bit.

I asked if members were Aspergers to give them the benefit of the doubt, to let others reading their dumb comments know that they might not actually be cunts but in fact have a mental disability.

magma wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:I never stated that everyone thinks like me. I'm just curios to why would people enjoy these sort of things.

This is the crux. Of course we all feel different about things like death. I'm not very sentimental, but I've certainly shed tears over dead loved ones as I have ex-girlfriends... saying goodbye is strange. In both circumstances I found having friends and family around who were feeling at least similar really helped. No idea why, it just made me feel better. Didn't bring anyone back and I certainly didn't expect it to!

That's different for everybody, of course. Some might not feel anything. Some might want to be alone. Some might want to get drunk. Some might want to go to church. But whatever their reaction and choice they shouldn't have to be approached and insulted for them. It's just showing really basic respect to another human being. If you can't show enough respect to leave people alone or, if you really feel the need, to make fun of them out of earshot, then you DO deserve to be taken out of society for a bit.

I agree with the fact that it's not ok to insult someone like that. But noone has to be obligated into respecting anything. One thing is going to prison for murder, but for an insult or lack of respect is a bit extreme.

Pedro Sánchez wrote:I asked if members were Aspergers to give them the benefit of the doubt, to let others reading their dumb comments know that they might not actually be cunts but in fact have a mental disability.

Maybe I am a tnuc, but you're being one as well, just sayin

seen.

ultraspatial wrote:I agree with the fact that it's not ok to insult someone like that. But noone has to be obligated into respecting anything. One thing is going to prison for murder, but for an insult or lack of respect is a bit extreme.

That's why not all prison sentences are the same length. This guy will be inside for just over 2 months - long enough to get settled and realise he's been in prison, he'll get a chance to speak to councillers about why he did it and will hopefully come out a bit healthier. A murder gets a minimum of 10 years in the UK.... rather a different punishment!

Did a lot of people just read the headline or something?

magma wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:I agree with the fact that it's not ok to insult someone like that. But noone has to be obligated into respecting anything. One thing is going to prison for murder, but for an insult or lack of respect is a bit extreme.

That's why not all prison sentences are the same length. This guy will be inside for just over 2 months - long enough to get settled and realise he's been in prison. A murder gets a minimum of 10 years in the UK.... rather a different punishment!

Did a lot of people just read the headline or something?

Of course they're not going to get the same sentence. But a rude comment or gesture shouldn't land you more than a fine, especially over the internet. There's a difference between desecrating an actual grave and just posting something on a fb memorial.

ultraspatial wrote:

magma wrote:

ultraspatial wrote:I agree with the fact that it's not ok to insult someone like that. But noone has to be obligated into respecting anything. One thing is going to prison for murder, but for an insult or lack of respect is a bit extreme.

That's why not all prison sentences are the same length. This guy will be inside for just over 2 months - long enough to get settled and realise he's been in prison. A murder gets a minimum of 10 years in the UK.... rather a different punishment!

Did a lot of people just read the headline or something?

Of course they're not going to get the same sentence. But a rude comment or gesture shouldn't land you more than a fine, especially over the internet. There's a difference between desecrating an actual grave and just posting something on a fb memorial.

Well, at least you agree it's a crime. We'll go in circles from here as it's just nitpicking... I'm generally reluctant on prison sentences too, but for some reason this seemed appropriate... I'm perfectly happy to concede that's debateable though. It was the idea that he shouldn't even get arrested/prosecuted or that people should have to "expect" this kind of treatment online that I was having trouble with.

The internet offers anonymity and i guess some people can abuse that. You can call someone a tnuc over the internet without the thought that you'll get punched or whatever. Most people are assholes because they can, without repercussions, not because they actually have anything against other people. Probably that's why it's best not to bother taking things like that seriously. I get the whole freedom of speech argument that some people throw. They may be right on one hand, but there's a difference between things such as expressing political ideas (even if they're racist) and straight up insulting someone for no reason. People shouldn't expect that, but I think they shouldn't expect sympathy from complete strangers either.

but at what point does it stop? that's the issue i have. i think it's a scummy thing to do, but if you allow prison sentences for one form of internet trolling, what's next? are kids playing video games calling people homophobe. or ****** going to get arrested for hate speech? it's a slippery slope

deadly habit wrote:but at what point does it stop? that's the issue i have. i think it's a scummy thing to do, but if you allow prison sentences for one form of internet trolling, what's next? are kids playing video games calling people Hi, I'm a homophobe or Successful Black Man going to get arrested for hate speech? it's a slippery slope

we need to ban the internet

deadly habit wrote:but at what point does it stop? that's the issue i have. i think it's a scummy thing to do, but if you allow prison sentences for one form of internet trolling, what's next? are kids playing video games calling people Hi, I'm a homophobe or Successful Black Man going to get arrested for hate speech? it's a slippery slope

No it's not. No new laws were created. No precidents set. There is no slope, this is business as usual. The *only* thing that made this a crime was the fact that he purposefully directed at the only people in the world that would be genuinely upset by it. If he'd posted it on his blog or a forum like this, I would've defended him to the hilt (and our system would've had no laws to prosecute him)

Your other examples are barely relevant... insulting a stranger in the heat of the moment has never been a crime, sending pre-meditated hatemail to the emotionally fragile has always been a crime.

facebook is just like a blog or forum though, so how is it a crime? there are loads of sensitive people all over the internet, not just facebook so how does it being on one type of site from another make a difference.
so should death threats i've gotten via facebook/email from say some random from this forum be a prosecutable offense since it's premeditated?

deadly habit does have a point. It's pretty unstable "moral ground" and things can get out of hand. It's not the case here and it probably won't be anytime soon. But still, should anyone be sent to jail because of a racial joke, for instance? Because I can say one at a bar and noone gets offended...
As for death threats from complete strangers, should they be treated seriously even though the sender has no real information about the other person?

Generally people want their governments to control speech to a certain extent, freedom of speech is a bit of a vague thing because no-one would defend someone to be able to go to school gates and shout obscenities to children, or to incite violence, or to instruct how to be a terrorist or plenty of other things- so all this talk of 'where will this end up' is a bit false because its already started as soon as you have any laws controlling what/how people can say things- just depends on what society finds acceptable by ballancing allowing people to express themselves while protecting those that don't like what is being expressed.

I never said to not regulate this a bit. I'd be pretty messed up to go up to a school yard and start yelling "who wants to suck me?" at children or at random women on the street, but that's harassment, doesn't really have much to do with freedom of speech. Arresting people for racial jokes or things of that manner has a lot to do with that. And yeah, it has a lot do to with what society finds acceptable. For instance: socialist or even communist propaganda is ok, fascist propaganda on the other hand isn't.

I hate those facebook tribute pages. I don't see the point. I have noticed on some of these pages for people I knew that a lot of the poster's either A) didn't really know the person or B) didn't like the person when they were alive. Does it really make the family feel better? For me it's a weird concept.

When I was about 17 I was arrested and charged with hacking a website (which I hadn't done). It was scary as fuck at the time, this was like in the 90s when the internet was very much new. CID came around to my house and were very civil and polite with me, by parents were shocked and stunned. Went to a Northumbria's main police station in Ponteland to be interviewed, they didn't even bother taking my computer, they didn't seem interested or to give a shit.

The way it had transpired was a local hotel owner, who sacked myself and two friends, had a wedding and a booking done for online. No one turned up, lots of food, extra staff etc left unpaid and him massively out of pocket. And all contact details were wrong. None of us had fuck all to do with it and the whole thing just smelt wrong - I mean you wouldn't go ahead and prepare a wedding without speaking to the couple, surely?

They also arrested my mate and he got the same thing. They dropped the charges and sort of said sorry.

Few months later the bloke sent the police around to my house again. This time saying I had being doing doughnuts on a motorbike in his car park and had damaged customers cars by spraying stones everywhere. PRoblem was, I was dossing around Spain. So he got caught talking shite basically

Last I heard mr James Flemming, the great architect who hated me and my mates, died at the grand age of 79.

Nothing to do with trolling but the first time (and not the last) I got into shit with the police via the internet.

The other was for a remark on Raul Moat's facebook page, inviting him to hide in my shed. Got a telephone call off the rozz for that - at work

Oh and if you're wondering why he sacked us - he sacked all the staff as soon as he took the hotel on.

magma wrote:I don't get why people find such a separation between real life and online...

this is the fundamental premise that is dangerous.