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Dubplate wrote: lol just in my opinion. Ive seen a few dubstep dj's and they've all been amazing and got the crowd going like caspa, benga and skream but when i saw scuba and gravious the dubstep was deep and slow, not the kind of thing you want from a night out. Burial's new album is fucking good but i wouldent want to hear it in a club, maybe this is why he dosent dj live?

there needs to be variety, that's all. i like that 'isolation tank' style dubstep - its great once youre stoned as fuck. Just sit/lean/sway somewhere and suck it in.

But i love the N type/Caspa/Dub Police sound too, proper leap around and get on it business.

the problem? Few dj's are capable of representing the full sound, so you need nights run by headz who know so that there's enough variety.

I mean, look at that night in Vauxhall with all the B2B business- thats what im talkin bout. Diverse rhythms and lots and lots of bass and good times.

[quote="Dubplate'']lol just in my opinion. Ive seen a few dubstep dj's and they've all been amazing and got the crowd going like caspa, benga and skream but when i saw scuba and gravious the dubstep was deep and slow, not the kind of thing you want from a night out. [/quote]

Not the kind of thing you want on a night out.

Fair enough if thats what you think, I think its an attitude on the increase at dubstep nights.

Funny isn't it. The total opposite of that kind of impatience and wanting to be handed your thrills on a plate is a pretty big part of what marked out dubstep to begin with.

so, when is dubstep going to hit the top 40? place ya bets now!

ozols man wrote:ah man wots with this wishful thinking, lets be realistic now. like wot the geeza said in the other thread, once the main constituency of dubstep fans r all students, u know the scenes in the problem area

Oh sorry I ruined your genre. If I drop out of uni am I allowed to come and play again?

To be honest I think I'd much rather have raves full of people who've heard of Dubstep through the Burial album than people who've just heard a couple wobble rinse outs and are expecting that all night.
Everyone complaining about the lack of variation in Dubstep at the moment really just isn't looking hard enough, but if the other stuff doesn't get played out then Dubstep's fucked. The diversity of the genre gets showcased at nights like DMZ where(almost) everyone is already really into the sound, but I reckon the smaller nights everywhere else in the world need to make sure they do too.

To the original question, I doubt the Burial album will have much effect on Dubstep as a whole. I'd be more worried about the Caspa and Rusko Fabriclive if you're concerned about attracting the "wrong crowds".

4linehaiku wrote:

ozols man wrote:ah man wots with this wishful thinking, lets be realistic now. like wot the geeza said in the other thread, once the main constituency of dubstep fans r all students, u know the scenes in the problem area

Oh sorry I ruined your genre. If I drop out of uni am I allowed to come and play again?

its alright mate . all jokes aside my point is more when dubstep becomes the new young adults/students system of identifying with their fellow man like drum n bass is now thats when the music begins to suffer. ie u always have the cliched drum n bass bloke down the student union like someone else was saying, whos more then likely rinsing out shit tunes.

this is when the music and identity which goes with it is basically bought out by the system and stagnation occurs, hence why u got ppl calling for it to be kept underground and grimey.

Dubplate wrote:

Slothrop wrote: But what about stuff that's deep and fast and happy vs stuff that's deep and fast and emo. Bugger, that's another couple of subdivisions.

Deep dubstep in a rave or dubstep night dosent really work imo, too slow and not enough to get the crowd going. eg. Scuba

There is some deeper dubstep that really works well at a club, Ital Tek sounds so awesome out loud when I've seen him and that's really deep and still heavy. It's all about keeping the energy and musicality!

4linehaiku wrote:I'd be more worried about the Caspa and Rusko Fabriclive if you're concerned about attracting the "wrong crowds".

thats a good point, especially since its more of what other people call 'jump up' style dubstep (not really a term i like). but as i said earlier whats the point in worrying about whats going to happen? mainstream success will (may) define what mainstream audiences like and expect. at the end of the day real fans will still like the deeper and more complex stuff. maybe itll create a divide between commercial nights that play what the masses want and more underground nights for the heads. from what people seem to saying here that might be a good thing, there certainly doesnt seem to be much time for 'students' and pilled up idiots

i remember hearing this same bullshit argument back in 96/97 regarding roni size/reprazent bringing in the wrong crowd and ruining drum&bass. you know what happened? nothing. drum&bass destroyed itself years later, by itself, without the help of anybody from the outside.

i don't mean to be a cynic but the same thing will eventually happen to dubstep. it'll get a little press, but continue to exist in the underground. years down the road innovation in the genre will stop, then the genre will begin to eat itself by recycling its own sounds for the sake of nostalgia (same as drum&bass has been doing for years).

my advice, just enjoy it while it lasts and let it breath and die like every other "underground" niche genre of club music. the neat thing about burial is he seems to acknowledge this birth, death, rebirth cycle within the underground and his music is a total reflection of, if not an outright ode to that.

never really considered that a "rave/hardcore continuum" exists, but yeah it does. dubstep is just a continuation of the same thing that's been happening in the UK since '89. soon enough something else will come up and re-take the underground.

besides, why do people still pledge total allegiance to, and vow to protect one single genre or sub-genre of music? it's a bit naive and petty isn't it? there's a whole world of music out there. enjoy it!

spot on.

u talk a lot of sense Mr Def, jut not sure where u get the patience from...a lot of people on here a bit too emotional and lacking all rationality, not sure its worth the energy

tone.def wrote: besides, why do people still pledge total allegiance to, and vow to protect one single genre or sub-genre of music? it's a bit naive and petty isn't it? there's a whole world of music out there. enjoy it!

I think you make a lot of good points and its a nice way to look at it, but I think people feel so protective of dubstep if anything because its so good. When I first got into dubstep and went to my first DMZ I was so happy with the quality of the music, the diversity of the producers, the vibe of the nights and so on and wanted it to carry on as long as possible. Also, at that time it didn't seem like it would be all that difficult for the music to progress and expand.

It's great that there's seemingly as much excitement over Burial's album as over Rusko/Caspar's fabric album or Spongebob or whatever, I just hope that that diversity can sustain itself against the narrower expectations of what dubstep should be.

Again though, I think you're right in that music constantly evolves and genres split and mutate into other things. Definitely cause for optimism.

Quadrophonic wrote:

Dubplate wrote:
Burial's new album is fucking good but i wouldent want to hear it in a club, maybe this is why he dosent dj live?

I dunno about you ... but I thought Kode 9 doin burial mix at Fwd last friday was pretty special - one of best things i've heard

It was special, but i did feel like i was the only one dancing to it. Etched headplate when i listen to it on phones has this nice skippy beat that makes me want to move, but at fwd the bass (amazing bass, love that portamento whoosh) was a bit too heavy for it and took a lot of the motion out of it. Other tracks kept that swingy momentum, but other people seemed to stand there.

Maybe the limitations of his way of working means mixdowns can't be AS good as on tunes made with multitrack programs, but he still does pretty well considering.

As for the whole students thing, wouldn't mind a few more being into dubstep, no-one i know on my course has even heard of it, and i have to explain it in simple, crappy terms which make people think i like lethal bizzle and oxide and neutrino.

4linehaiku wrote:

ozols man wrote:ah man wots with this wishful thinking, lets be realistic now. like wot the geeza said in the other thread, once the main constituency of dubstep fans r all students, u know the scenes in the problem area

Oh sorry I ruined your genre. If I drop out of uni am I allowed to come and play again?

To be honest I think I'd much rather have raves full of people who've heard of Dubstep through the Burial album than people who've just heard a couple wobble rinse outs and are expecting that all night.
Everyone complaining about the lack of variation in Dubstep at the moment really just isn't looking hard enough, but if the other stuff doesn't get played out then Dubstep's fucked. The diversity of the genre gets showcased at nights like DMZ where(almost) everyone is already really into the sound, but I reckon the smaller nights everywhere else in the world need to make sure they do too.

To the original question, I doubt the Burial album will have much effect on Dubstep as a whole. I'd be more worried about the Caspa and Rusko Fabriclive if you're concerned about attracting the "wrong crowds".

Wise Words. especially the last bit.

nothing lasts forever/ everything changes etc

get over it...

tone.def wrote:i remember hearing this same bullshit argument back in 96/97 regarding roni size/reprazent bringing in the wrong crowd and ruining drum&bass. you know what happened? nothing. drum&bass destroyed itself years later, by itself, without the help of anybody from the outside.

i don't mean to be a cynic but the same thing will eventually happen to dubstep. it'll get a little press, but continue to exist in the underground. years down the road innovation in the genre will stop, then the genre will begin to eat itself by recycling its own sounds for the sake of nostalgia (same as drum&bass has been doing for years).

my advice, just enjoy it while it lasts and let it breath and die like every other "underground" niche genre of club music. the neat thing about burial is he seems to acknowledge this birth, death, rebirth cycle within the underground and his music is a total reflection of, if not an outright ode to that.

never really considered that a "rave/hardcore continuum" exists, but yeah it does. dubstep is just a continuation of the same thing that's been happening in the UK since '89. soon enough something else will come up and re-take the underground.

besides, why do people still pledge total allegiance to, and vow to protect one single genre or sub-genre of music? it's a bit naive and petty isn't it? there's a whole world of music out there. enjoy it!

the best post in the whole discussion

Slim wrote:
As for the whole students thing, wouldn't mind a few more being into dubstep, no-one i know on my course has even heard of it, and i have to explain it in simple, crappy terms which make people think i like lethal bizzle and oxide and neutrino.

exactly

tone.def wrote:i remember hearing this same bullshit argument back in 96/97 regarding roni size/reprazent bringing in the wrong crowd and ruining drum&bass. you know what happened? nothing. drum&bass destroyed itself years later, by itself, without the help of anybody from the outside.

i don't mean to be a cynic but the same thing will eventually happen to dubstep. it'll get a little press, but continue to exist in the underground. years down the road innovation in the genre will stop, then the genre will begin to eat itself by recycling its own sounds for the sake of nostalgia (same as drum&bass has been doing for years).

my advice, just enjoy it while it lasts and let it breath and die like every other "underground" niche genre of club music. the neat thing about burial is he seems to acknowledge this birth, death, rebirth cycle within the underground and his music is a total reflection of, if not an outright ode to that.

This is all very true. OTOH, it's understandable that while there's still so much to love about dubstep, people want to talk about what's happening to it, what's going right and what's going wrong, what they like and what they don't like, and how they can keep the things that they love about it going for as long as possible.

And while it's basically just chatting breeze on the internet, it can be constructive if it gets people into sounds or ideas or aspects of the music that they wouldn't otherwise have cared about.

What we need is an ark.