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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:33 pm
by misk
Paul Updat wrote:I agree with seckle's point regarding the quality and trends of stuff on the digital outlets. Loads of poorly produced hype tunes that sound like they've been started and finished in one afternoon AND loads of fucking boring, uninteresting experimental shit that sounds like it's being produced purely to try and be different - like their trying to lead a forced rebellion against the clearly more commercially successful hype tunes.
Thing that pisses me off the most is that there is another side of this sound that seems to be getting ignored a bit at the moment - the deep (not cheesey deep), soulful, groovy beats. It always seems like dubstep is presented as being wobble or non-wobble.
I aint got a problem with big wobbly tunes if they still have a groove and good production. There are a lot of shit hype tunes floating around. In fact, I would say there are a lot of shit tunes floating around that cover different styles of the sound.
People should be making music because they want to, not because they think they can jump on a band-wagon and exploit a style. Very unrealistic I know.
I agree with what your saying, but i think there's a lot of people out there who like what they currently hear in dubstep, as it sounds new and fresh to them. They just want to make what they like to hear, to be a bigger part of the sound that inspires them to begin with. nothing wrong with that, and i think theres a certain amount of purity that comes with that. some of my best, most experimental ideas were had back when i didnt know how to work a parametric EQ.
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:41 pm
by fairieswearboots
Yeah - all about quality, regardless of the style
Look at Goth Trad - amazing and deep but you could also argue that its wobble?
(and I lOVE GT tunes)
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:08 pm
by jolly wailer
goth trad makes music
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:54 pm
by hackman
the one thing i dont get about this whole argument....
the majority of the number of dubstep djs that are well known and will draw a crowd dont play out chainsaw stuff imo:
silkie
quest
trg
pinch
headhunter
mala/loefah
vex'd
pangaea
ramadanman
appleblim
geiom
spl
babylon system
boxcutter
chef
ld
jay5
heny g
cotti
cluekid
d1
eskmo
elemental
ital tek
goth trad
kromestar
joker
kulture
kutz
kode 9
l wiz
luke envoy
martyn
noah d
peverlist
rustie
starkey
untold
zomby
truth
breakage
shackleton
coki
vs
c + s
16 bit
skream
benga
hatcha
nero
bar 9
caspa/rusko
emalkay
benny page
mrk1
n type
orien
the others
probably missed alot but thats just to paint a picture
yes the production volume of chainsaw stuff is greater, but most of it is from lesser known producers
the fact that more well known djs are not playing out chainsaw stuff makes me think that there isnt an issue that the scene is becoming stagnated, and people should stop going on about it
btw not hating on chainsaw stuff, like alot of it
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:35 pm
by kay
seckle wrote:apply it to anything creative in your life. its a good thing to think about.
I agree with that.
I generally would prefer to think that if I do something creative, then it gets done my way. And my way shouldn't be the same as any other person's way because that would dilute the effect of my creativity, and what would be the point of that? Might as well sit in my own room watching porn than waste the effort.
It may sound/look/feel overall similar but there should be nuances that speak of my own personality/thoughts that set it aside from others' efforts. After all, we're all individuals with different personality make-ups. How and why should we do/like everything the same way? As 16bit put it, it should be a natural thing to innovate and do things ever so slightly differently especially when it comes to something creative.
I've never understood people who buy into fads/trends, especially the disaffected no-trend trends.
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:48 pm
by Sharmaji
nothing against wobble, nothing against a big chainsaw-y raver, nothing (at all) against deep vibes that fill a room w/ the sense that everyone there is involved in something bigger.
however, i'm completely against anything that sounds the same, against sets that don't go anywhere, that only create a singular space, not a journey. Seckle knows this, we've talked about it a bunch, it's that ethos that got me into this world in 2005 and always shocks me when i see sets that DON'T involve it.
to me it's like... what's the point? if you want a set that starts at ARGHARGHARGHARGHARGH and ends at ARGHARGHARGHARGHARGH with a bit of ARGHARGHARGHARGHARGH in between--- why not just play breaks?
we need the expansion of the sound. as a scene, we really NEED the chainsaws. i mean, shit, remember the 1st time you heard Lion VIP? we need those moments... we just don't need endless amounts of the same idea.
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:01 pm
by seckle
threnody wrote:As the next new influx of producers came in this then got exhasperated as halfstep was viewed as the central sound in dubstep (before that it was ragga samples).... this chainsaw bass (post spongebob) has now influenced the next influx of producers but now things have grown so much that the post 07 producers far outweigh those that were there when things were fragmented.....as a result certain trends have been followed through to the point where so many people make them that they are seen as characterising the dubstep sound and outsiders immediatly think of this sound when the word dubstep is banded about.....
and this is a great point. there's thousands and thousands of people that have come into this sound in 2008-2009, and with that influx comes the potential for an amazing range of experimentation as long as people don't just assume that to make it big, it means chainsaws everywhere.
the dnb influence brings with it hoovers, reeces, chainsaws, tunes built around drops and build up's, evil spooky damian 666 samples and a whole lot of other things that dominate 160bpm. all of which is fine, as long as its not one narrowminded palette of sound, just to follow everyone else down the same road. thats just musical stupidity.
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:07 pm
by seckle
TeReKeTe wrote:against sets that don't go anywhere, that only create a singular space, not a journey.
Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:18 pm
by drum syndicate
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:07 am
by youthful_implants
-boring wrote:seckle this thread is waste and you know it.
tunes stand alone IMO.
^ this,
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:26 am
by nousd
^with respect, cos I don't really know where you're coming from,
I believe that your view is part of the difficulty that Seckle is describing.
Just as you have posted heaps in your first week,
presumably because of the excitement of discovery,
so have would-be producers swamped us with over-used sounds
that inevitably appear in less-discriminating (imo) sets & in radio shows.
That'd be alright if it was limited to supports exercising their testosterone but it's creeping later & later into nights as spinners succumb to the feeling that "well, if there's so much of it around, people must like it"
That's a mindset that deters innovation and risk-taking....which, taken to an extreme, can produce crap itself, so needs to be tempered thru knowledge of what's come before.
You'll like what you like, for your reasons, but I'm entitled to hear quality ds that the artists produce. If that sounds elitist or wanky to you, wait awhile and if you're still into this music, ykwim. Cheers.
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:46 am
by sines
TeReKeTe wrote:we just don't need endless amounts of the same idea.
truth.
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:11 am
by hellfire machina
^^^^^^
That should swing both ways though, there's as much poorly made,going nowhere for 5 minutes yawnstep tunes than there are hit the lfo sync button and change the rate a few times tunes. (in both instances this is usually due to inexperience in production, we've all been there though).
There seems to be a consensus that lfo basses are all made in 2 minutes and anyone could do them. The irony is that the simply made tunes seem to be the most popular on this board with a lot of people. Goblin springs to mind straight away.
Artists like 16bit/Bar 9/Nero/Datsik/DZ/Vaski/Riskotheque etc are creating some amazing sounds within their tracks, pushing the envelope when it comes to synthesis and programming and at the same time destroying dancefloors.
Sharwaji hit the nail on the head for me, varied sets that go places will keep the scene fresh, everything has it's place, the art is in piecing the jigsaw together.
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:50 am
by robotic
an abundance of crappy music within a genre umbrella like 'dubstep' is a blessing! it gives the dj a chance to market himself without limitation. if i tell u that i'll be playing dubstep, then u dont really know what's coming. so i'm free to do more or less what i want, to sneak in even 'non-dubstep' disguised amongst a diversity of 'dubstep' sounds! and therein lies the danger, the unpredictable and experimental. up to every one individually to stand out and do something unique or to be pigeonholed into some corner of the sound. all u ppl out there hating need counseling... cuz there's plenty to love... it's simply harder to find. kind of like how it was before we called it dubstep.
and @ seckle: like someone mentioned already, the 'road less traveled analogy' doesnt really work in music or to support your argument, as ur just as much of a sheep following the lesser crowd. all about not caring where anyone goes, and whether or not ur on the 'road' at all. cross-country ftw yea!
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:39 pm
by seckle
robotic wrote:the 'road less traveled analogy' doesnt really work in music or to support your argument, as ur just as much of a sheep following the lesser crowd.
no that's not my argument or what that analogy is really about. 500 people using the same set of sounds is safe. its the fasttrack thinking. the safest way from point a to b....follow everyone else around you.
its "group" mentality...safety in numbers. there's nothing inspiring about it. following 10 people down an alternative path is more challenging, as there's less safety, and more ways to discover things without a "group's" influence or "group" thinking. take it out of music for a second. a great example of what i'm talking about is the art world. you have people in the art world that follow the "system" that's in place, by seeing how everyone around them has used the system. for example : you create art > you show art in galleries> you sell art...etc. then, you have people like shepard fairey, or banksy that generally use the same system, but chose their own pathway through it, and didn't rely on the zietgiest for validation. banksy does whatever he wants, and so does Shepard. It makes their art much more dangerous, because no one knows where their going next.
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:47 pm
by Pistonsbeneath
the best way to be is to genuinely not give a fuck..rather than choosing a path conciously and sticking to it for me
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:05 pm
by bukezfinezt
i like dem basses
...
and i like basses which dont chainsaw arround !!!!
like many guys say...its important that the productions is innovative and well done!
i love music!!!!!
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:09 pm
by datilt
Prefer lawn-mower.
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:53 pm
by drum syndicate
DaTilt wrote:Prefer lawn-mower.
this.... lawnmowerstep ftw
Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:07 pm
by paul updat
seckle wrote:robotic wrote:the 'road less traveled analogy' doesnt really work in music or to support your argument, as ur just as much of a sheep following the lesser crowd.
no that's not my argument or what that analogy is really about. 500 people using the same set of sounds is safe. its the fasttrack thinking. the safest way from point a to b....follow everyone else around you.
its "group" mentality...safety in numbers. there's nothing inspiring about it. following 10 people down an alternative path is more challenging
So either way you're following something, someone or an idea that has been done before. To be originally or innovatively creative is hard, which is why the vast majority of producers need a guideline to follow. The true innovators and trend-setters are the cream that rise to the top and get the recognition they deserve (usually).
People need to accept that this is how Dubstep is. Chainsaw tunes fill clubs, chin-stroking tunes do not. Who would have thought it. Don't worry though, there's shit loads of ultra-cool, needlessly experimental tunes for us all to listen to when we're feeling pretentious.