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j-sh wrote:

crackf wrote: No. you havent cut down, because they will still kill as much pigs etc if you ate them or not.

I think of it as supply and demand. If I decrease the demand by not eating pork, then i'm not buying any pork, and the people who kill pigs to sell it as pork make less money and therefore kill (fractionally) fewer pigs to match the lower demand. Obviously my personal contribution is very very very small, but still it's like recycling or voting or whatever - act in a way you would wish everyone else to. If everyone in the world stopped eating meat, pork companies wouldn't just keep on killing pigs anyway would they?

crackf wrote: but if you appeal to the murder of fish then why not appeal to the murder of meat?

In my original post I was trying to explain that someone who eats fish but no other meats is not necessarily a hypocrite. Not appealing to the murder of fish over other meats. Eating any one meat only every 2-3 days is (i think) more beneficial than eating every type of meat for every meal. Sorry i didn't really make that clear

irrelevant post? sorry mate thought you wanted to talk about vegetarianism -obviously not. take it easy

crackf wrote:

j-sh wrote:

crackf wrote: No. you havent cut down, because they will still kill as much pigs etc if you ate them or not.

I think of it as supply and demand. If I decrease the demand by not eating pork, then i'm not buying any pork, and the people who kill pigs to sell it as pork make less money and therefore kill (fractionally) fewer pigs to match the lower demand. Obviously my personal contribution is very very very small, but still it's like recycling or voting or whatever - act in a way you would wish everyone else to. If everyone in the world stopped eating meat, pork companies wouldn't just keep on killing pigs anyway would they?

crackf wrote: but if you appeal to the murder of fish then why not appeal to the murder of meat?

In my original post I was trying to explain that someone who eats fish but no other meats is not necessarily a hypocrite. Not appealing to the murder of fish over other meats. Eating any one meat only every 2-3 days is (i think) more beneficial than eating every type of meat for every meal. Sorry i didn't really make that clear

irrelevant post? sorry mate thought you wanted to talk about vegetarianism -obviously not. take it easy

cool lol, sorry was wasted but still, i just think if you feel strongly about the subject, you shouldnt go in half hearted. uour either a vegetarian or a meat eater, and you sir are a meat eater

ch3 wrote:

Ayatollah wrote:

hackman wrote:all vegetarians who aren't vegans are hypocritical idiots, for the most part

100% this.
If you're doing it because of the animals, then stay away from all animal products. If you're doing it because you think it's healthier, it's actually not. If you're doing it because you think meat is gross for some reason, you should just man up. A vegetarian diet will give you the physique of Oli Sykes unless you pay lots of attention to your protein intake (lots of lentils, nuts, beans, tofu, cheese and eggs everyday).

Bollocks. You have to pay just as much attention with any diet and it's really quite hard to manage protein deficiency in a western country. Unless you cover up an eating disorder with being a veggie, which unfortunately happens. Vegans do need to take care of B12 though, I'm blaming too sterile food production (i.e. health and safety paranoia) for that

Anyway, whatever the reason is, quit judging. In exchange I won't preach, but cook a nice vegan meal instead

j-sh wrote:if someone eats no meat products, however chooses to eat fish on occasion (say every other day) does that make them a hypocrite?
If the reason you're a vegetarian is to prevent animal cruelty, then surely you've done so by preventing pigs, cows etc.. from dying for your food. Granted you have caused fish to die, but you've still cut down on the overall amount of cruelty being caused. Same if you're doing it to reduce the amount of waste and carbon emissons caused by your diet. Although you still eat fish you're still doing something to help the environment. being a hypocrite would be being a vegetarian because you want to prevent animal cruelty and then spending your afternoon chasing down cats with your car. Eating fish but not other meats isn't hypocrisy it's just only doing half the job, which surely is still better than nothing. Its like if you decided that humans should not consume so much wood so decided to only build a fire once a month rather than every week, and then people calling you a hypocrite because you haven't stopped using wood all together.
If, however, someone who eat ate meat three meals a day decided to become a vegetarian but wanted to still eat fish, and then ate fish for three meals a day. that would be just be a waste of time, and fairly stupid yeh i agree.

Dunno, i don't really see it as illogical for someone to eat no meats apart from fish if they're trying to prevent animal cruelty or help the environment. Similarly if someone decided to only eat pork, or beef or whatever - if you're overall you're eating less meat than surely that's better than nothing?

nicenice wrote:Well the thing is, all these animals that are farmed. They're being killed regardless of anyone eating them or not. Your not saving the animals by not eating them, so really its just a waste to not eat meat.

Ayatollah wrote:

j-sh wrote:if someone eats no meat products, however chooses to eat fish on occasion (say every other day) does that make them a hypocrite?
If the reason you're a vegetarian is to prevent animal cruelty, then surely you've done so by preventing pigs, cows etc.. from dying for your food. Granted you have caused fish to die, but you've still cut down on the overall amount of cruelty being caused. Same if you're doing it to reduce the amount of waste and carbon emissons caused by your diet. Although you still eat fish you're still doing something to help the environment. being a hypocrite would be being a vegetarian because you want to prevent animal cruelty and then spending your afternoon chasing down cats with your car. Eating fish but not other meats isn't hypocrisy it's just only doing half the job, which surely is still better than nothing. Its like if you decided that humans should not consume so much wood so decided to only build a fire once a month rather than every week, and then people calling you a hypocrite because you haven't stopped using wood all together.
If, however, someone who eat ate meat three meals a day decided to become a vegetarian but wanted to still eat fish, and then ate fish for three meals a day. that would be just be a waste of time, and fairly stupid yeh i agree.

Dunno, i don't really see it as illogical for someone to eat no meats apart from fish if they're trying to prevent animal cruelty or help the environment. Similarly if someone decided to only eat pork, or beef or whatever - if you're overall you're eating less meat than surely that's better than nothing?

That would make sense if you strictly followed a ratio of beef:pork:fish and who does that? If you cut out all meats except pork you'll just end up eating more pork.
And it's not just because of meat, the egg and dairy industry cause loads of animal death and suffering and also a huge stress on the environment so I was talking about that as well. You can cut out meat and fish and still eating eggs and milk (and that includes most foods) and you're causing loads of animals to suffer and die because of your food.

Oh and fishing and aquaculture fuck the environment right in the ass.

nicenice wrote:Well the thing is, all these animals that are farmed. They're being killed regardless of anyone eating them or not. Your not saving the animals by not eating them, so really its just a waste to not eat meat.

No, they are farmed because there is a market for them, if less people buy meat they farm less animals.

Ayatollah wrote:

ch3 wrote:

Ayatollah wrote:

hackman wrote:all vegetarians who aren't vegans are hypocritical idiots, for the most part

100% this.
If you're doing it because of the animals, then stay away from all animal products. If you're doing it because you think it's healthier, it's actually not. If you're doing it because you think meat is gross for some reason, you should just man up. A vegetarian diet will give you the physique of Oli Sykes unless you pay lots of attention to your protein intake (lots of lentils, nuts, beans, tofu, cheese and eggs everyday).

Bollocks. You have to pay just as much attention with any diet and it's really quite hard to manage protein deficiency in a western country. Unless you cover up an eating disorder with being a veggie, which unfortunately happens. Vegans do need to take care of B12 though, I'm blaming too sterile food production (i.e. health and safety paranoia) for that

Anyway, whatever the reason is, quit judging. In exchange I won't preach, but cook a nice vegan meal instead

yeah I know vegans claim you only need 10g protein a day or something. Maybe you can live off that, but you can live off just chips as well and it doesn't mean that it's good for you. If you're an active person you need amounts of protein that would be really hard to get on a vegan diet, if you didn't take rice or pea protein powder shakes on the side.
If your diet makes you have to take supplements, then there's something obviously wrong with it IMO.
And I'd say you actually do have to pay more attention to your diet as a vegetarian or a vegan because it's easy to just cut out meat and animal products which leaves most people with rice, potatoes, bread and mostly carbohydrates and that's not a healthy diet, and lots of vegetarians slack off and start just eating crisps all the time when they should be planning their meals and cooking. Like I said before they need to be eating lentils, beans, nuts and tofu whereas someone who eats meat and animal products get their proteins in much easier and without so much need to be planning their meals.

And cheers for being vegan, I respect that. I just think that vegetarians (non-vegans) who get in-your-face about animal rights and animal cruelty are huge hypocrites, that's all.

Ayatollah wrote: That would make sense if you strictly followed a ratio of beef:pork:fish and who does that? If you cut out all meats except pork you'll just end up eating more pork.

J-sh wrote: if, however, someone who eat ate meat three meals a day decided to become a vegetarian but wanted to still eat fish, and then ate fish for three meals a day. that would be just be a waste of time, and fairly stupid yeh i agree.

nicerice wrote:Well the thing is, all these animals that are farmed. They're being killed regardless of anyone eating them or not. Your not saving the animals by not eating them, so really its just a waste to not eat meat.

sd5 wrote:
if I agree
does that mean that I can eat executed prisoners?

i think it only fair that if you choose to eat meat
you be obliged to, at least once, kill your meat
and observe the suffering of the animal supplying it

but we have long been omnivores
valuing meat for protein, fat and minerals
and it's undoubted contribution to the development of the brain

so when the animals I have consumed sometimes haunt me,
baaing and braying their way through my intestines,
I placate them with lots of brocolli, spinach & carrots.

sd5 wrote:

nicerice wrote:Well the thing is, all these animals that are farmed. They're being killed regardless of anyone eating them or not. Your not saving the animals by not eating them, so really its just a waste to not eat meat.

if I agree
does that mean that I can eat executed prisoners?

i think it only fair that if you choose to eat meat
you be obliged to, at least once, kill your meat

ch3 wrote: lentils, beans, nuts and such are good addition to any, not only vegan diet

Ayatollah wrote: And cheers for being vegan, I respect that. I just think that vegetarians (non-vegans) who get in-your-face about animal rights and animal cruelty are huge hypocrites, that's all.

(Pada) wrote:

Ayatollah wrote: And cheers for being vegan, I respect that. I just think that vegetarians (non-vegans) who get in-your-face about animal rights and animal cruelty are huge hypocrites, that's all.

Meat eaters always complain about veggies getting in their face but, as this thread proves, mostly it's meat eaters who get in the face of veggies.

(Pada) wrote:

Ayatollah wrote: And cheers for being vegan, I respect that. I just think that vegetarians (non-vegans) who get in-your-face about animal rights and animal cruelty are huge hypocrites, that's all.

Meat eaters always complain about veggies getting in their face but, as this thread proves, mostly it's meat eaters who get in the face of veggies.