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esfandyar wrote: it means that northern ireland should not be run out of london, and it is. its essentially saying to get that english power out of northern ireland.

First hurdle and you come crashing down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Executive

Without Britain Northern Ireland would have close to 90% unemployment. Northern Ireland needs Britain for the foreseeable future and Ireland cannot afford it.

esfandyar wrote:[ unfortunately the english did murder and slaughter and rape many many irish during its colonial invasion.

You going to help us with the Danes, Swedes, The Welsh slave traders and the Catholic church too?

.onelove. wrote:

esfandyar wrote:
Lets get one thing straight, I'd wager a large number of these 'Irish people' you encounter are anything but. Just because you may well be descended from an Irishman hundreds of years back does not make you one, a lot of people in Ireland actually have a lot of resentment for these what they deem as 'plastic paddies'. These Irish Americans are not at all representative of the opinion of the real residents of Ireland, all you're doing is drumming up fake patriotism.

As one of the only Irish people in the conversation I was dismissed. Its amazing what a bit of shamrock, some lucky charms and pint of green beer can do to an opinion.

.onelove. wrote:

esfandyar wrote: Now, you don't necessarily have to know of any Northern Irish personally, but please be aware that an overwhelming majority WANT British rule. What gives you the right to demand their independence when it's not in the population's interest? Why do you think you know better than they do?

the majority of people want to remain in the Union but this because of economic reasons rather than any political shit. The civil service is the largest employer in the 6 counties at the moment. Ireland cannot afford Northern Ireland however much some people would like it back.

esfandyar wrote: there were people fighting against that motorway in ireland being built I hope you know... as was stated in the flyer and has been documented.

The majority of those protesters were not Irish, they were new age hippies who travel from country to country protesting about some bullshit that isnt any of there concern and this campaign lost all credibility when the TV companies went down to interview the protesters and couldnt find any Irish there.

drlego wrote:

esfandyar wrote: it means that northern ireland should not be run out of london, and it is. its essentially saying to get that english power out of northern ireland.

First hurdle and you come crashing down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Executive

Without Britain Northern Ireland would have close to 90% unemployment. Northern Ireland needs Britain for the foreseeable future and Ireland cannot afford it.

How many people within that executive work for Britain's interests though? and 90% unemployment.. fuck you dude. have some faith. if the colonization never happened in the first place i wonder how the north irish would be doing without britain is the question.

drlego wrote:

.onelove. wrote:

esfandyar wrote:
Lets get one thing straight, I'd wager a large number of these 'Irish people' you encounter are anything but. Just because you may well be descended from an Irishman hundreds of years back does not make you one, a lot of people in Ireland actually have a lot of resentment for these what they deem as 'plastic paddies'. These Irish Americans are not at all representative of the opinion of the real residents of Ireland, all you're doing is drumming up fake patriotism.

As one of the only Irish people in the conversation I was dismissed. Its amazing what a bit of shamrock, some lucky charms and pint of green beer can do to an opinion.

.onelove. wrote:

esfandyar wrote: Now, you don't necessarily have to know of any Northern Irish personally, but please be aware that an overwhelming majority WANT British rule. What gives you the right to demand their independence when it's not in the population's interest? Why do you think you know better than they do?

the majority of people want to remain in the Union but this because of economic reasons rather than any political shit. The civil service is the largest employer in the 6 counties at the moment. Ireland cannot afford Northern Ireland however much some people would like it back.

both of those quotes saying I wrote them are actually oneloves response, might have gotten mixed up when we were going back and forth. neither were written by me and are misquoted :p.

drlego wrote:

esfandyar wrote:[ unfortunately the english did murder and slaughter and rape many many irish during its colonial invasion.

You going to help us with the Danes, Swedes, The Welsh slave traders and the Catholic church too?

one battle at a time!

drlego wrote:

esfandyar wrote: there were people fighting against that motorway in ireland being built I hope you know... as was stated in the flyer and has been documented.

The majority of those protesters were not Irish, they were new age hippies who travel from country to country protesting about some bullshit that isnt any of there concern and this campaign lost all credibility when the TV companies went down to interview the protesters and couldnt find any Irish there.

just put in valley of tara protests in youtube. this was one of the first ones to come up, the people in here look irish to me, however the hippie thing kinda comes off with the harps lol. but you are overgeneralizing. there are people there who think desecrating tara valley is a terrible thing.

So wait, you don't even want the re-unification of Ireland? You just want Northern Ireland to become an independent state of it's own?

Jesus Christ....

.onelove. wrote:So wait, you don't even want the re-unification of Ireland? You just want Northern Ireland to become an independent state of it's own?

Jesus Christ....

where did i say that? if you took it from the vid i just used it as one of the many vids on youtube that documented people's outcry..

esfandyar wrote:

.onelove. wrote:So wait, you don't even want the re-unification of Ireland? You just want Northern Ireland to become an independent state of it's own?

Jesus Christ....

where did i say that? if you took it from the vid i just used it as one of the many vids on youtube that documented people's outcry..

No I got that impression from this;

esfandyar wrote: yeah and im saying some people who do live there do not support britain's long arm from london. that does not mean handing them over to the rule of a republic, you are simplifying a complex issue.

I don't even know how that video is relevant. What has the construction of a new motorway in Ireland got to do with Northern Ireland and the British?

please do me a favor and go back and read some of the stuff i have been posting. or just read the flyer i posted. the whole thing is an analogy of the issues at hand.

now if you dont mind i might let this thread die because its just yourself, and drlego who are still concerned with my points of view on the subject. maybe pms might work better rather than continually arguing over this thread.

esfandyar wrote:

drlego wrote:

esfandyar wrote: it means that northern ireland should not be run out of london, and it is. its essentially saying to get that english power out of northern ireland.

First hurdle and you come crashing down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_Executive

Without Britain Northern Ireland would have close to 90% unemployment. Northern Ireland needs Britain for the foreseeable future and Ireland cannot afford it.

How many people within that executive work for Britain's interests though?

What actual interest does Britain have in Northern Ireland? It's not like we're in the middle of plundering their vast oil wealth or anything.

And to answer your question, I'd imagine that the Sinn Fein members are working to minimize mainland influence, and the unionist members are working to not minimize it, because that's the policy that they stand for election with and that's what the people who voted for them wanted. I thought you people were meant to be good at democracy?

esfandyar, you seem to be blissfully unaware that the British have absolutely no relation to the construction of that motorway. That's happening in Ireland, you know under the Irish Government's sanction, you know in that country that's completely independent of Britain?

Sorry, but do you even understand the difference between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland?

esfandyar wrote:please do me a favor and go back and read some of the stuff i have been posting. or just read the flyer i posted. the whole thing is an analogy of the issues at hand.

now if you dont mind i might let this thread die because its just yourself, and drlego who are still concerned with my points of view on the subject. maybe pms might work better rather than continually arguing over this thread.

Seriously- loads of people, (actually everyone that has posted a reply, Irish and British) think that your comments are ill informed and offensive. I've not bothered responding again because there are enough points from other people that you don't take any notice of, it doesn't seem to make any difference to you what anyone that actually knows about the issues says.

You go and wave that banner around anywhere in Ireland or Northern Ireland and people will laugh at your ignorance at best.

@ esfandyar
From my Mum - "Ach, catch yourself on! You're away in the head!"

esfandyar wrote:
How many people within that executive work for Britain's interests though? and 90% unemployment.. fuck you dude. have some faith. if the colonization never happened in the first place i wonder how the north irish would be doing without britain is the question.

None of them. They are elected by the people of Northern Ireland. You dont have a clue. Northern Ireland, now, without the British government and its money would have 90% unemployment.

esfandyar wrote:
Lets get one thing straight, I'd wager a large number of these 'Irish people' you encounter are anything but. Just because you may well be descended from an Irishman hundreds of years back does not make you one, a lot of people in Ireland actually have a lot of resentment for these what they deem as 'plastic paddies'. These Irish Americans are not at all representative of the opinion of the real residents of Ireland, all you're doing is drumming up fake patriotism.

My reply to him, agreeing with him by the way cause I doubt you have met any Irish people and you dismissed me one of the only Irish people in this messy shite you started.

DrLego wrote:
As one of the only Irish people in the conversation I was dismissed. Its amazing what a bit of shamrock, some lucky charms and pint of green beer can do to an opinion.

.onelove. wrote:

esfandyar wrote: Now, you don't necessarily have to know of any Northern Irish personally, but please be aware that an overwhelming majority WANT British rule. What gives you the right to demand their independence when it's not in the population's interest? Why do you think you know better than they do?

the majority of people want to remain in the Union but this because of economic reasons rather than any political shit. The civil service is the largest employer in the 6 counties at the moment. Ireland cannot afford Northern Ireland however much some people would like it back.

I agree with this too.

esfandyar wrote:
both of those quotes saying I wrote them are actually oneloves response, might have gotten mixed up when we were going back and forth. neither were written by me and are misquoted :p.

Im agreeing with him. You need to read a post or perhaps a book like you so nastily advised me to.

esfandyar wrote:

drlego wrote:

esfandyar wrote:[ unfortunately the english did murder and slaughter and rape many many irish during its colonial invasion.

You going to help us with the Danes, Swedes, The Welsh slave traders and the Catholic church too?

one battle at a time!

JESUS, thats not a serious statement, Its a facetious comment.

esfandyar wrote:

esfandyar wrote: there were people fighting against that motorway in ireland being built I hope you know... as was stated in the flyer and has been documented.

drlego wrote: The majority of those protesters were not Irish, they were new age hippies who travel from country to country protesting about some bullshit that isnt any of there concern and this campaign lost all credibility when the TV companies went down to interview the protesters and couldnt find any Irish there.

just put in valley of tara protests in youtube. this was one of the first ones to come up, the people in here look irish to me, however the hippie thing kinda comes off with the harps lol. but you are overgeneralizing. there are people there who think desecrating tara valley is a terrible thing.

Thats right you tell me about my country, you know best

the few of you who have posted on here are not the voice of ireland or the british, nor do you represent the voices of everyone there. that being said, there are people there who reject the english government having power over parts of ireland. why does the IRA still exist and continue to make attacks on authorities as recent as back in january of 2010? i dont support the nationalist views of the IRA, but it demonstrates the idea that some irish do want britain gone from their land, enough to bomb buildings and kill people. this is my opinion, im against colonialism. whether i live there or not does not matter. if you use that as a strength to your arguement then i dont want to hear any of you ever criticizing the US, or any other country outside your own ever again. you dont live here so you cant understand it right?? fuck off. i oppose colonialism. plain and simple. and for those who think britain has no power over ireland, then take a look at the parades commission, a small example out of the many, which was created and is reinforced by the british government that makes it so protestant fraternal groups cannot march near catholic areas. that caused decades of bloodshed from sectarian confrontations... whether you agree with that or not it means britain has control over ireland such as this. the dominant capitalist system ran by britain over ireland is obvious as well! although the potato famine was a long time ago, it was caused by the british, which then caused about 6 million irish to either emigrate or die from famine. now do you think since then that britain has withdrew its grip on ireland? there is no famine currently there, but if an occupation is not removed permanently by force, then give me an example when any colonial force has ever withdrew from its occupation voluntarily. they dont. just because things are comforting for you guys might mean it hasnt effected you directly. or maybe you guys just dont care about colonialism's impact. i do. i care about the people who suffered through it. i have so many friends here in phoenix who have had their families split in half because of it. i know many who have gone to jail trying to resist its continuing wake against native land. this is o'odham jew'ed, or o'odham land. the current US occupation of it took this land violently and its still effecting many here, most recently the new building of a freeway here on south mountain which is why we tied it to the one built over the valley of tara. that is very very important to a lot of people! that land should not be fucked with. the arizona govt. does not care about what the o'odham think about it. they want to save some asshole a couple minutes on the freeway instead. surely there are irish who feel the same way as i about where they live. and if you dont share that opinion then again as i said before tough shit. im not telling you what to do or anything of the sort, its my opinion.

also im not in implying that my opinion suggests trying to uproot ireland's current population. its the government im critiquing! and fuck you drlego for dismissing me for not knowing any irish. just because they are irish american does not mean they are not irish, or know what the life is like over there. that sounds nationalistic to me. if there are americans living in ireland or there are americans living anywhere else in the world, do they not know how america's country is ran or is like in its daily lifestyle? to say no to that is foolish.

double post.

Posters are perfectly entitled to post on what ever subject they wish and people are perfectly entitled to have opinions on stuff that takes place outside their own locality but when they do so in a haplessly misinformed manner and ignore those that try and inform them they are also likely to be called out on it.

I'm as Irish as many who claim to be Irish American and I'm English enough for nowaysj to consider me part of the problem.

esfandyar wrote:most recently the new building of a freeway here on south mountain which is why we tied it to the one built over the valley of tara. that is very very important to a lot of people! that land should not be fucked with. the arizona govt. does not care about what the o'odham think about it.

The BRITISH have no responsibility to the construction of the motorway in Tara Valley. Read it. Say it aloud. Again and again until it gets into that thick skull of yours. Colonialism has literally nothing to do with that particular issue, why is that so hard to understand? If the Irish Government want to erode their own culture/landmarks, that's up to them, but Britain has absolutely no say on the issue.

You've shown you have a real poor understanding about some basic fundamentals, so to dive in and start shouting your mouth off about political ideals is madness. The Republic of Ireland is not the same country as Northern Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is not under British rule anymore. Northern Ireland is. The IRA want the re-unification of Ireland, the majority of the Northern Irish population (and Irish for that matter) do not.

What is your actual argument here? Do you understand the difference between the two countries?

JESUS.

So this whole thread has been about the building of a motorway?

I think its a bit moronic and vulgar to think you represent anyones opinion other than your own misinformed one.

All that dumb slogan is putting stupid ideas into people's heads who read it at face value.