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seckle wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:i was saying you were as entitled as i was maybe that didnt come across...you seemed to be saying that unless youd had your stuff or business robbed you had no right to have a view on those taking hardline views

right and left wing are just easy ways to categorise certain mindsets

there are far too many right wing things being said by the media as well

how are they gonna take peoples benefits away and kick people out of their homes????

hows that gonna work its a stupid idea

I just think its funny that there was no right/ left talk before the riots, or during, but now as people are facing even more draconian steps by the govt, everything is back to what box you fit into.

I'd be rebuilding reeves cnr too. Big up

i know its an effort and its a long thread, but saying there was no political talk about these riots whilst they were going on is total bullshit

there's numerous video's of people on youtube all talking politics

any talk of the riots, or the reasons for the riots etc. IS politically weighted

you're attempting to make some moral high-ground judgement about peoples attitudes to these riots that are based on lies and its ridiculous to see you do that

aside from the fact that its inevitable talk of these riots will be based around 'right wing' and 'left wing' ideology, what is it exactly that you expect people to be talking about??

pointless issue you raised

Someone just posted this on Facebook, not sure to what to think of it; http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/8/11/camero ... -networks/

It just sounds like parliament doesn't know what the fack they're doing!

noam wrote:

seckle wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:i was saying you were as entitled as i was maybe that didnt come across...you seemed to be saying that unless youd had your stuff or business robbed you had no right to have a view on those taking hardline views

right and left wing are just easy ways to categorise certain mindsets

there are far too many right wing things being said by the media as well

how are they gonna take peoples benefits away and kick people out of their homes????

hows that gonna work its a stupid idea

I just think its funny that there was no right/ left talk before the riots, or during, but now as people are facing even more draconian steps by the govt, everything is back to what box you fit into.

I'd be rebuilding reeves cnr too. Big up

i know its an effort and its a long thread, but saying there was no political talk about these riots whilst they were going on is total bullshit

there's numerous video's of people on youtube all talking politics

any talk of the riots, or the reasons for the riots etc. IS politically weighted

you're attempting to make some moral high-ground judgement about peoples attitudes to these riots that are based on lies and its ridiculous to see you do that

aside from the fact that its inevitable talk of these riots will be based around 'right wing' and 'left wing' ideology, what is it exactly that you expect people to be talking about??

pointless issue you raised

Pointless to you maybe, but you live in one of the oldest monarchies in the world. Rioting goes back hundreds of years in your country. The class wars too. Being right or left doesn't really matter when the moletovs are flying, or landing. Duggan's death wasn't left or right, and the issues of govt corruption, racism, racial profiling or an oppressive police force, shouldn't be spun either way either. Justice first, politics second.

seckle wrote:

noam wrote:

seckle wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:i was saying you were as entitled as i was maybe that didnt come across...you seemed to be saying that unless youd had your stuff or business robbed you had no right to have a view on those taking hardline views

right and left wing are just easy ways to categorise certain mindsets

there are far too many right wing things being said by the media as well

how are they gonna take peoples benefits away and kick people out of their homes????

hows that gonna work its a stupid idea

I just think its funny that there was no right/ left talk before the riots, or during, but now as people are facing even more draconian steps by the govt, everything is back to what box you fit into.

I'd be rebuilding reeves cnr too. Big up

i know its an effort and its a long thread, but saying there was no political talk about these riots whilst they were going on is total bullshit

there's numerous video's of people on youtube all talking politics

any talk of the riots, or the reasons for the riots etc. IS politically weighted

you're attempting to make some moral high-ground judgement about peoples attitudes to these riots that are based on lies and its ridiculous to see you do that

aside from the fact that its inevitable talk of these riots will be based around 'right wing' and 'left wing' ideology, what is it exactly that you expect people to be talking about??

pointless issue you raised

Pointless to you maybe, but you live in one of the oldest monarchies in the world. Rioting goes back hundreds of years in your country. The class wars too. Being right or left doesn't really matter when the moletovs are flying, or landing. Duggan's death wasn't left or right, and the issues of govt corruption, racism, racial profiling or an oppressive police force, shouldn't be spun either way either. Justice first, politics second.

We also live in a awfully political country driven by media; a society where anyone with some sort of power, with an opinion is worried to share it because they might have their face plastered over the news paper the next day with something twisted around to make then look like stnuc. I don't know anyone who isn't politically active in England; which is a great thing and what happens in this country will always steer a political mind more left/right as lets be honest; even if you are leftist of left wing and voice anger about a situation like this, ask for more brutal policing or something - you will be called right wing, I think its just the way our country works! You're judged on your political stand-point via the things you say.

Not trying to team up with people to have a go at you by the way..

the two concepts are intertwined so deeply though... politics has always dictated what justice is due to the very nature of the system who's laws we live in

different classes, races, religions of people also all have different concepts of justice

if the idea is simply punishing those involved in rioting and looting fine, i agree, there should be punishments for those involved, but dont be so naive as to think that whatever punishment that is, will not be met with criticism from anywhere for being too lenient, too strict, too insensitive, overly sensitive, not recognising potential mitigating factors marring the judgements of young impressionable kids who bought into mob mentality as they'd never witnessed anything like this event before... there's all sorts of variables involved

a boy popped up on facebook who's been sent down for 4months for helping an old man who was being assaulted by the police, he called the police scum and kicked up a fuss, some of the looters who robbed from premises are getting 2-4weeks...

its also important to really stop and think before allying yourself with either side, even with metering out 'justice' to those who've been caught - the potential for knee-jerk reactions both by the state and the public is so large that it would pay to sit back and take stock, perspective is so important in a case like this

the fact they're pushing through 100's of cases a day now is simply ridiculous, i dont see how you can argue that when normally it takes weeks and weeks to even get to caught for a parking fine

Apparently the teacher who looted Richer Sound in Croydon has already been sentenced to 2 years.

maybe he wanted the equipment to teach kids the Pian-ee and such other things....

maybe he just fucking hates richer sounds lol

who doesn't

anyway

massive attack wrote:In context with the complicit support of the government, the banks looted the nation's wealth while destroying countless small businesses and brought the whole economy to its knees in a covert, clean manner, rather like organised crime.

Our reaction was to march and wave banners and then bail them out. These kids would have to riot and steal every night for a year to run up a bill equivalent to the value of non-paid tax big business has 'avoided' out of the economy this year alone.
They may not articulate their grievances like the politicians that condemn them but this is absolutely political. As for the 'mindless violence'… is there anything more mindless than the British taxpayer quietly paying back the debts of others while contributing bullets to conflicts that we have absolutely no understanding of?

It's mad, sad and scary when we have to take to the streets to defend our homes and businesses from angry thieving kids, but where are the police and what justice is ever done when the mob is dressed in pin stripe.

@seckle:
im not sure but it seems like you might be trying to talk about economic injustices in England? That its not fair that independent business owners can't afford to insure their only investment, and are denied access to the kind of credit lines that would make it possible to do so?

If anything this riot has showed me how corrupt and wrong the mass media can be and also how it brought out underlying racism.

I'm not justifying the riots nor do I think 99% of them are innocent in any form of way, they were pretty much all morons I agree, but it's scary how the media and general public reacted.

legend4ry wrote:Someone just posted this on Facebook, not sure to what to think of it; http://www.thinq.co.uk/2011/8/11/camero ... -networks/

It just sounds like parliament doesn't know what the fack they're doing!

I think this would cause even more chaos. It definitely would have to include shutting down all cellular service, which would just do more damage than anything else.

he thought social media was great when it was used in the "arab spring"



utter fucking tnuc, cant see how anyone likes him, at least tony blair was a little more convincing

seckle wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:i was saying you were as entitled as i was maybe that didnt come across...you seemed to be saying that unless youd had your stuff or business robbed you had no right to have a view on those taking hardline views

right and left wing are just easy ways to categorise certain mindsets

there are far too many right wing things being said by the media as well

how are they gonna take peoples benefits away and kick people out of their homes????

hows that gonna work its a stupid idea

I just think its funny that there was no right/ left talk before the riots, or during, but now as people are facing even more draconian steps by the govt, everything is back to what box you fit into.

I'd be rebuilding reeves cnr too. Big up

There isn't a bias on the left or right towards authoritarianism. Left/Right is an economic position. Liberal/Authoritarian is the one you're after.

In fact, in this country, the Labour Party are more likely to support tough policing and legislative control than the Tories. Labour gave us the stop/search, they took away our right to protest near Parliament, they introduced extended detention without charge and they made us the most CCTV covered nation on the planet. Left doesn't equate to Liberal here... the New Labour years were some of the worst for our civil rights. Although there are economic similarities, especially in the 90s and 00s, they're not really directly interchangeable with the Democrats.

Sorry for snapping earlier... but yeah, if you're going to have a political debate about a foreign country, at least approach it in a way that people don't have to keep correcting you on the basics of our system... we're hurting a bit right now.

can't remember if i got this vid from this thread or elsewhere so sorry if it's a repost but this guy speaks very well about the issues surrounding this (despite the twat of a reported trying to push the conversation into the usual soundbites and condemnations without addressing any of the root causes)



and on a lighter note, it looks like some of the bastards responsible for this have been caught...







http://lootalikes.tumblr.com/

Dunno if it's been posted, but keep this in mind:

faust.dtc wrote:Apparently the teacher who looted Richer Sound in Croydon has already been sentenced to 2 years.

He walked into a lamp post outside of court too

hugh wrote:I think any adverse left OR right wing reaction is bad. What we need is a good, long period of reflection before we do anything untoward.

This.

There's a lot of finger pointing, blaming and knee-jerk reactions going on. Tbh, my take on this is: What's done is done. You can't bring back all the burnt shops, the destroyed lives or the 20 million items that have been rehomed. I'd rather attention was focused on fixing the things that need more attention (e.g. rehousing homeless people, ensuring that those who've had their livelihoods destroyed get support until their lives reach some semblance of recovery) as well as a finding a solution that prevents this from ever happening again. Really couldn't care less about sentencing, jailing or water cannons just in case.

@Pistonsbeneath: Might've missed a post but how's your HMV? Do you still have a job? Do you have to go elsewhere to work? Did the Black Sheep survive? As someone who's quite affected by all this, what's your take on it and what would you like to see done next?

seckle wrote:

magma wrote:

seckle wrote:

clifford_- wrote:thats the same lame arguement ive heard from several other people.

"how would you like it they burnt your house down?"

saying stuff like that isnt gonna solve anything.

Easily said when you've never invested hard money into a business, and seen it ruined in 1 hour. How does the 89yr old barber in tottenham, who had his barber shop looted, feel about the problems facing britain today? Should he tick off the left boxes, or the right boxes?

Stop trying to make another country's problems worse than they already are... I have no idea how that man feels (and neither do you), but I imagine he's been at least slightly heartened by the fact that the country is currently having a whip-round for him.

I'm not sure if you've ever even been to London, but we fucking live here... we understand our community and we don't need people who aren't part of the community trying to whip up yet more hysteria and division. We have enough already.

You do understand why victims don't do sentencing almost anywhere in the world, right?

"The law is reason free from passion" - Aristotle.

I realise that International news is seen as entertainment over there, but fuck, this is our home.

Ok, so with that train of thought, lets not have any more comments on america, its culture or its social issues, because we don't have enough of it. How does that sound?

I love London, and this idea that i can't be upset or have opinions about the riots because I don't live there is ridiculous.

We can't help it that 90% of the Americans can't think for their own.

wow @ M-A's response, loving not only the music

Aljazeera has gone off in the last few days on this. Massive subsite on their front page...
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/spotlight/ukriots/