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Pistonsbeneath wrote:the country is fucked

essentially i work my arse off day after day to pay for many many 'people' to have kids they couldn't have paid for themselves and not go to work and to top it all off be a fucking nuisance where i live to anyone that needs to get up in the morning..

also there is nothing wrong with smacking a kids arse...as long as it's done with teaching the kid a simple lesson in mind...actually fuck that...there is nothing wrong with having some boundaries...in my shop parents do not give a fuck what their kids are doing....they throw stock on the floor, they eat stock if they are very young.....there needs to be harsher treatment of parents who allow their kids to do these things...

The benefits system then...it seems to kinda go against evolution..survival of the fittest and all that....why SHOULD everyone get handouts?
its not the kids fault so they should be put up for adoption followed by the mothers sterilization...if you can't pay for kids don't have them should be the motto...there are already too many people as it is...

people should be rewarded for their hard work....not be taxed so morons can continue on their untenable path

The problem is making sure those that deserve support still get it. In my humble, you need to leave the system slightly open to abuse so that you make sure everyone gets help when they need it. If you took away the welfare state entirely what would you do if you got sick? Die in the street?

It's ugly seeing people take advantage of it all the time, but it's even uglier seeing someone who genuinely needs help refused it because they can't tick the right box on a form.

maybe you should become a volunteer traveling abortion doctor. or you could become the Dexter Morgan of abortions

magma wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:the country is fucked

essentially i work my arse off day after day to pay for many many 'people' to have kids they couldn't have paid for themselves and not go to work and to top it all off be a fucking nuisance where i live to anyone that needs to get up in the morning..

also there is nothing wrong with smacking a kids arse...as long as it's done with teaching the kid a simple lesson in mind...actually fuck that...there is nothing wrong with having some boundaries...in my shop parents do not give a fuck what their kids are doing....they throw stock on the floor, they eat stock if they are very young.....there needs to be harsher treatment of parents who allow their kids to do these things...

The benefits system then...it seems to kinda go against evolution..survival of the fittest and all that....why SHOULD everyone get handouts?
its not the kids fault so they should be put up for adoption followed by the mothers sterilization...if you can't pay for kids don't have them should be the motto...there are already too many people as it is...

people should be rewarded for their hard work....not be taxed so morons can continue on their untenable path

The problem is making sure those that deserve support still get it. In my humble, you need to leave the system slightly open to abuse so that you make sure everyone gets help when they need it. If you took away the welfare state entirely what would you do if you got sick? Die in the street?

It's ugly seeing people take advantage of it all the time, but it's even uglier seeing someone who genuinely needs help refused it because they can't tick the right box on a form.

sure..i mean that's the nicer response to things but it's the wrong direction to be going in

evolution survival of the fittest thats what i say...

the nhs should be kept as its better for society as a whole....otherwise the system needs to be much much tougher....if people can't afford a child then they shouldn't be encouraged to have one...knowing they will get money is an incentive..especially if they don't fancy getting a job...

as i said before there are already too many people

Its good to see people on this forum (figuratively speaking of course) with some wisdom, when i speak to people about these things in person usualy they just shrug and say whatever, thats life.

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

magma wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:the country is fucked

essentially i work my arse off day after day to pay for many many 'people' to have kids they couldn't have paid for themselves and not go to work and to top it all off be a fucking nuisance where i live to anyone that needs to get up in the morning..

also there is nothing wrong with smacking a kids arse...as long as it's done with teaching the kid a simple lesson in mind...actually fuck that...there is nothing wrong with having some boundaries...in my shop parents do not give a fuck what their kids are doing....they throw stock on the floor, they eat stock if they are very young.....there needs to be harsher treatment of parents who allow their kids to do these things...

The benefits system then...it seems to kinda go against evolution..survival of the fittest and all that....why SHOULD everyone get handouts?
its not the kids fault so they should be put up for adoption followed by the mothers sterilization...if you can't pay for kids don't have them should be the motto...there are already too many people as it is...

people should be rewarded for their hard work....not be taxed so morons can continue on their untenable path

The problem is making sure those that deserve support still get it. In my humble, you need to leave the system slightly open to abuse so that you make sure everyone gets help when they need it. If you took away the welfare state entirely what would you do if you got sick? Die in the street?

It's ugly seeing people take advantage of it all the time, but it's even uglier seeing someone who genuinely needs help refused it because they can't tick the right box on a form.

sure..i mean that's the nicer response to things but it's the wrong direction to be going in

evolution survival of the fittest thats what i say...

the nhs should be kept as its better for society as a whole....otherwise the system needs to be much much tougher....if people can't afford a child then they shouldn't be encouraged to have one...knowing they will get money is an incentive..especially if they don't fancy getting a job...

as i said before there are already too many people

If you can cope with having the streets filled with starving children, then you're a bigger man than me. They'd end up living off private handouts, disease would spread and we'd end up with a genuinely ineducated criminal underclass... have you ever been to a country with a serious begging problem?

Darwinism only works when you're talking about genes... not about social behaviour. You can eliminate blonde or black people, but you're going to find it hard to remove lazy people from society long term.

I agree that people should be encouraged to take a second look at their personal conditions before having children, but the right to bear children is the inalienable right of any human, IMHO... you can't go around steralising people at birth... that's just fascism.

magma wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

magma wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:the country is fucked

essentially i work my arse off day after day to pay for many many 'people' to have kids they couldn't have paid for themselves and not go to work and to top it all off be a fucking nuisance where i live to anyone that needs to get up in the morning..

also there is nothing wrong with smacking a kids arse...as long as it's done with teaching the kid a simple lesson in mind...actually fuck that...there is nothing wrong with having some boundaries...in my shop parents do not give a fuck what their kids are doing....they throw stock on the floor, they eat stock if they are very young.....there needs to be harsher treatment of parents who allow their kids to do these things...

The benefits system then...it seems to kinda go against evolution..survival of the fittest and all that....why SHOULD everyone get handouts?
its not the kids fault so they should be put up for adoption followed by the mothers sterilization...if you can't pay for kids don't have them should be the motto...there are already too many people as it is...

people should be rewarded for their hard work....not be taxed so morons can continue on their untenable path

The problem is making sure those that deserve support still get it. In my humble, you need to leave the system slightly open to abuse so that you make sure everyone gets help when they need it. If you took away the welfare state entirely what would you do if you got sick? Die in the street?

It's ugly seeing people take advantage of it all the time, but it's even uglier seeing someone who genuinely needs help refused it because they can't tick the right box on a form.

sure..i mean that's the nicer response to things but it's the wrong direction to be going in

evolution survival of the fittest thats what i say...

the nhs should be kept as its better for society as a whole....otherwise the system needs to be much much tougher....if people can't afford a child then they shouldn't be encouraged to have one...knowing they will get money is an incentive..especially if they don't fancy getting a job...

as i said before there are already too many people

If you can cope with having the streets filled with starving children, then you're a bigger man than me. They'd end up living off private handouts, disease would spread and we'd end up with a genuinely ineducated criminal underclass... have you ever been to a country with a serious begging problem?

i think it's gone too far now...if they had stronger measures in place to prevent unaffordable children being born it would start to get better...then in a few generations when the numbers have dropped they could scrap benefits...they are essentially linked to people having loads of kids.....people looking for a job and not financing for their lazy 'why should i take responsibility for my actions' lifestyle are not the problem..

ultimately if it goes on it will get worse so we need to put measures in place before it spirals any more

That's not true in the slightest. Before the Welfare State was introduced, this country had MASSIVE social order, crime and poverty issues. Just look at London in the late 19th and early 20th centuries... people starving in the streets, workhouses, prisons overflowing, riots... it wasn't a happy place.

The 20th Century was an awful lot better for the majority of British people than any other century before it and we managed to be involved in two world wars!

Controlling birth rates might seem like a very sensible idea... but what other powers are you going to give up to the authorities at the same time? Are you going to indoctrinate everyone at birth so they agree with it? How about we all wear uniforms so we're not too individual? ID Cards are probably a good idea too. And we'd better not let anyone travel to countries where they might be told our way is wrong, better not let them read books or watch TV from "before" unless it shows it in a bad light....

magma wrote:That's not true in the slightest. Before the Welfare State was introduced, this country had MASSIVE social order, crime and poverty issues. Just look at London in the late 19th and early 20th centuries... people starving in the streets, workhouses, prisons overflowing, riots... it wasn't a happy place.

The 20th Century was an awful lot better for the majority of British people than any other century before it and we managed to be involved in two world wars!

Controlling birth rates might seem like a very sensible idea... but what other powers are you going to give up to the authorities at the same time? Are you going to indoctrinate everyone at birth so they agree with it? How about we all wear uniforms so we're not too individual? ID Cards are probably a good idea too. And we'd better not let anyone travel to countries where they might be told our way is wrong....

sure i understand that but many other factors would have contributed to that...

i know what you're saying with the whole giving the government too much power flex but as i said with spreading out everyones money so people not working can be consumers in a sense it is for control...

I'm only interested in the food & air situation...nothing beyond that....people can have kids by all means...as many as they want so long as i and everyone working don't have to pay for them...what sort of life is the kid gonna have anyway with someone that irresponsible....i live in it mate....i live on an estate with a lot of council tenants andd the impression i get from most of them is they can't tie their own shoelaces let alone bring up a kid

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

magma wrote:That's not true in the slightest. Before the Welfare State was introduced, this country had MASSIVE social order, crime and poverty issues. Just look at London in the late 19th and early 20th centuries... people starving in the streets, workhouses, prisons overflowing, riots... it wasn't a happy place.

The 20th Century was an awful lot better for the majority of British people than any other century before it and we managed to be involved in two world wars!

Controlling birth rates might seem like a very sensible idea... but what other powers are you going to give up to the authorities at the same time? Are you going to indoctrinate everyone at birth so they agree with it? How about we all wear uniforms so we're not too individual? ID Cards are probably a good idea too. And we'd better not let anyone travel to countries where they might be told our way is wrong....

sure i understand that but many other factors would have contributed to that...

i know what you're saying with the whole giving the government too much power flex but as i said with spreading out everyones money so people not working can be consumers in a sense it is for control...

I'm only interested in the food & air situation...nothing beyond that....people can have kids by all means...as many as they want so long as i and everyone working don't have to pay for them...what sort of life is the kid gonna have anyway with someone that irresponsible....i live in it mate....i live on an estate with a lot of council tenants andd the impression i get from most of them is they can't tie their own shoelaces let alone bring up a kid

I know and I do understand the motivation, which is why I'm not calling you names. Idealism is all well and good, but it's rarely very practical. In my perfect world there would be a benign dictator who had the country's interests at heart rather than the results of the next election on his mind and people would all act responsibly and agree with the dictator.... unfortunately, when you're talking about 60m people that have got over 300 years of constitutional democracy behind them, well, it's just not possible... the only way it would be possible would be to seize power through some sort of coup and force everyone to comply.

So my best "realistic" option is to give as much choice to the people as possible. That involves lots of democracy to try and aggregate everyone's opinion and find the country's new direction. It's a slow process, but it's better, in my head, than a bloody revolution.... France had one of those and they're not a lot better off than us. Spain tried Dictatorship too... it kept them as a 3rd World country until they gave it up.

We're a big ship, it takes hundreds of years to turn it. It's been moving in the right direction, generally, for around the last 1500 years... it'll carry on moving long after we're dead.

magma wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

magma wrote:That's not true in the slightest. Before the Welfare State was introduced, this country had MASSIVE social order, crime and poverty issues. Just look at London in the late 19th and early 20th centuries... people starving in the streets, workhouses, prisons overflowing, riots... it wasn't a happy place.

The 20th Century was an awful lot better for the majority of British people than any other century before it and we managed to be involved in two world wars!

Controlling birth rates might seem like a very sensible idea... but what other powers are you going to give up to the authorities at the same time? Are you going to indoctrinate everyone at birth so they agree with it? How about we all wear uniforms so we're not too individual? ID Cards are probably a good idea too. And we'd better not let anyone travel to countries where they might be told our way is wrong....

sure i understand that but many other factors would have contributed to that...

i know what you're saying with the whole giving the government too much power flex but as i said with spreading out everyones money so people not working can be consumers in a sense it is for control...

I'm only interested in the food & air situation...nothing beyond that....people can have kids by all means...as many as they want so long as i and everyone working don't have to pay for them...what sort of life is the kid gonna have anyway with someone that irresponsible....i live in it mate....i live on an estate with a lot of council tenants andd the impression i get from most of them is they can't tie their own shoelaces let alone bring up a kid

I know and I do understand the motivation, which is why I'm not calling you names. Idealism is all well and good, but it's rarely very practical. In my perfect world there would be a benign dictator who had the country's interests at heart rather than the results of the next election on his mind and people would all act responsibly and agree with the dictator.... unfortunately, when you're talking about 60m people that have got over 300 years of constitutional democracy behind them, well, it's just not possible... the only way it would be possible would be to seize power through some sort of coup and force everyone to comply.

So my best "realistic" option is to give as much choice to the people as possible. That involves lots of democracy to try and aggregate everyone's opinion and find the country's new direction. It's a slow process, but it's better, in my head, than a bloody revolution.... France had one of those and they're not a lot better off than us. Spain tried Dictatorship too... it kept them as a 3rd World country until they gave it up.

We're a big ship, it takes hundreds of years to turn it. It's been moving in the right direction, generally, for around the last 1500 years... it'll carry on moving long after we're dead.

*sighs*

you're right of course...i'm just sick of people taking the piss and even sicker of having to work so fucking hard just to have what they have

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

magma wrote:

Pistonsbeneath wrote:

magma wrote:That's not true in the slightest. Before the Welfare State was introduced, this country had MASSIVE social order, crime and poverty issues. Just look at London in the late 19th and early 20th centuries... people starving in the streets, workhouses, prisons overflowing, riots... it wasn't a happy place.

The 20th Century was an awful lot better for the majority of British people than any other century before it and we managed to be involved in two world wars!

Controlling birth rates might seem like a very sensible idea... but what other powers are you going to give up to the authorities at the same time? Are you going to indoctrinate everyone at birth so they agree with it? How about we all wear uniforms so we're not too individual? ID Cards are probably a good idea too. And we'd better not let anyone travel to countries where they might be told our way is wrong....

sure i understand that but many other factors would have contributed to that...

i know what you're saying with the whole giving the government too much power flex but as i said with spreading out everyones money so people not working can be consumers in a sense it is for control...

I'm only interested in the food & air situation...nothing beyond that....people can have kids by all means...as many as they want so long as i and everyone working don't have to pay for them...what sort of life is the kid gonna have anyway with someone that irresponsible....i live in it mate....i live on an estate with a lot of council tenants andd the impression i get from most of them is they can't tie their own shoelaces let alone bring up a kid

I know and I do understand the motivation, which is why I'm not calling you names. Idealism is all well and good, but it's rarely very practical. In my perfect world there would be a benign dictator who had the country's interests at heart rather than the results of the next election on his mind and people would all act responsibly and agree with the dictator.... unfortunately, when you're talking about 60m people that have got over 300 years of constitutional democracy behind them, well, it's just not possible... the only way it would be possible would be to seize power through some sort of coup and force everyone to comply.

So my best "realistic" option is to give as much choice to the people as possible. That involves lots of democracy to try and aggregate everyone's opinion and find the country's new direction. It's a slow process, but it's better, in my head, than a bloody revolution.... France had one of those and they're not a lot better off than us. Spain tried Dictatorship too... it kept them as a 3rd World country until they gave it up.

We're a big ship, it takes hundreds of years to turn it. It's been moving in the right direction, generally, for around the last 1500 years... it'll carry on moving long after we're dead.

*sighs*

you're right of course...i'm just sick of people taking the piss and even sicker of having to work so fucking hard just to have what they have

Take pride in it, mate... you contribute, they don't and I expect that in moments of reflection that has to eat away at even the cuntiest human. Hold your head up high. It sounds like you take your job pretty seriously and there aren't too many people that can say that, especially out of those I've known that have worked in retail... keep plugging away and if it's not giving you what you reckon you deserve, it's time to move on...

I actually agree with almost all of your moans!

on an unrelated note...

the palestinians should probably have their own state

king_laffa wrote:on an unrelated note...

the palestinians should probably have their own state

i disagree . i think the only solution is to unify palestine and israel.

a two state solution would only create more arguments about whose land is whose. and we all know where that one ends.

i say unify the two and see what happens

bagelator wrote:

king_laffa wrote:on an unrelated note...

the palestinians should probably have their own state

i disagree . i think the only solution is to unify palestine and israel.

a two state solution would only create more arguments about whose land is whose. and we all know where that one ends.

i say unify the two and see what happens

i say in one night plug them all into the matrix and forget about the whole thing

hurlingdervish wrote:

bagelator wrote:

king_laffa wrote:on an unrelated note...

the palestinians should probably have their own state

i disagree . i think the only solution is to unify palestine and israel.

a two state solution would only create more arguments about whose land is whose. and we all know where that one ends.

i say unify the two and see what happens

i say in one night plug them all into the matrix and forget about the whole thing

lol

hurlingdervish wrote:

bagelator wrote:

king_laffa wrote:on an unrelated note...

the palestinians should probably have their own state

i disagree . i think the only solution is to unify palestine and israel.

a two state solution would only create more arguments about whose land is whose. and we all know where that one ends.

i say unify the two and see what happens

i say in one night plug them all into the matrix and forget about the whole thing

What about Rabbi Smith?

throw pork at him and run


RUN

hurlingdervish wrote:throw pork at him and run


RUN

best thing ive heard i along time

but personally i think palestine should own the land and israelites should live on it
see where that goes

UNPOPULAR OPINION:

Nandos is overrated.

king_laffa wrote:on an unrelated note...

the palestinians should probably have their own state

That's not really that unpopular, mate.



[edit: just noticed you live in apartheid Israel. Maybe it is then.]