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scspkr99 wrote: Think Moyes gets a lot of credit without actually having won anything. Like 10 years at Everton and not even a League cup.

Thing was though, before Moyes, Everton were were relegation candidates more often than not. In 3 years he had them in the Champion's league. When you consider all the other teams that have made up the top 4 since then(the traditional 'top 4' plus City and Spurs in the last few seasons), I'd say it's more of an achievement than an FA or League cup. You could probably even go back another 8 years or so and I'd imagine the only other teams making the top 4 would've been Leeds and Newcastle, who were both spending big at the time.

Sure Everton have spent, but not as much as the teams around them, and certainly nowhere near the teams above them. If we're honest, he's probably taken Everton about as far as they can go, they're not going to break into the top 4 again any time soon. Would be interesting to see how Moyes would handle a team with higher expectations though if he could work out how to start winning games before Christmas, there'd be no stopping him. :p

hutyluty wrote:

ehbrums1 wrote:If te rangers are in third division the entire league will suffer.. Less competition will mean clubs won't be as driven to bring in new players. Celtic are the only club who could benefit from it

well that and the fact that everyone'll lose half their income. Scottish football is dead, has been since setanta went bust.

PinUp wrote:Just don't think they are up to the standard of the top half of the premier league plus the travelling to away games would be ridiculous, this might make Celtic Park a fortress though.

It's only an extra hour further than Newcastle, not really a big deal. They'd go down because the team is rubbish. The fact that Gary Hooper leads the line for them says a lot.

Did you not read what I said? Being in the premiership we would have a bigger pull and more money for players so we wouldn't have players like Gary Hooper as a first team forward.

Also, more news on Rangers, Walter Smith (ex-manager) wants to buy the club

If Celtic DID join the Prem they'd be back in Europe in a few years. Albeit the Europa League. They couldn't compete with Man City or Chelsea money, Man Utds winning mentality and experience, or Arsenals set up and style...but they'd be Top 7 in a few years. They are a massive, massive club.

They have a big stadium (that I'd imagine they could expand?) and a huge following (not just in Scotland). It would take them years to build up a squad talented enough for a top 4 spot (at the moment they'd probably lower mid-table standard) and losing European football would not help in bringing better players in...but they have more potential than any English club of their standard, and could most likely outbid most of those clubs for players....

But, yeah.....it aint gonna happen, so it don't matter. haha.

Should Croatia be disqualified from Euro 2012?

For the second match in a row, there were fights involving Croatian fans (before the Ireland game, they were also fighting among each other mind you: fans from different teams). They've disrupted two matches in a row with fireworks and flares. But most disturbingly, actually threw banana's at Ballotelli Yesterday. Of course, the Polish editor never showed you those images during the match. But after an Italian attack, banana's flew out of the stands onto the Pitch on the left side.
Because of the small stadium with the stands so close to the pitch, it should be very easy to recognise the perpetrators I'd think.
Also, whenever Ballotelli was involved in an action, I could hear the ape-sounds from the stands quite clearly even from my own living room. This is the 4th incident involving racism at the Euro 2012 championship (Czech player Gebre Sellasier was insulted a lot during their match with Russia (the Russian fans in general haven't been too friendly), the Dutch team was verbally assaulted during one of their trainings).

I mean, UEFA aren't responding at all. I'm sure somebody somewhere out there is "reviewing" these incidents, but what of it then? And also fine those associations in question money? What good is that going to do? I'm not a pussy and verbal abuse on the football field has been something that's always present.
But if UEFA say they will not tolerate it before the championship starts, then they should put their money where their mouth is and punish Croatia or the Croatian association for the behaviour of their fans? Or are they not to blame for the actions of their fans?

Croatia is awesome though, maybe that's why. I like how they delay the game with fireworks too, Dutch fans just dress weird
and yell things at van Bommel.

If there's evidence on tape then absolutely yeah, teams should be getting docked points or even disqualified outright. As ever, they'd rather have a visibly "trouble free" tournament than actually make a stand on the things they claim are important. If UEFA made a big enough fuss and disqualified a team, this sort of thing would stop *overnight*.

I can't say I've noticed anything terrible in the stands yet, but I've not really been looking that hard... plus I fell asleep during Italy/Croatia...


Edit: Apparently they were burning EU flags and parading around with portraits of some ethnic cleanser from their civil war too. They sound like fucking lovely people. Kick them out. Tell them to come back when they've realised it's not 1938.

magma wrote:If UEFA made a big enough fuss and disqualified a team, this sort of thing would stop *overnight*.

You really believe people would stop being racist/nationalistic idiots because a football team was kicked out of a tournament?

You can never stop uneducated people being idiots overnight...but you can stop them acting on their thoughts with these sorts of punishments.

If the countries teams keep getting kicked out of these things, it won't be long before they're spending more on educating people on these kinds of things.

FIFA should say, we have these moral rules and if your country is shown not to follow them (racist, homophobic etc) then we you don't get to play in international games at all.

Won't happen cos the guys at the top are corrupt as hell.

garethom wrote:

magma wrote:If UEFA made a big enough fuss and disqualified a team, this sort of thing would stop *overnight*.

You really believe people would stop being racist/nationalistic idiots because a football team was kicked out of a tournament?

You can't stop people being racist/nationalistic idiots without raising them up out of poverty, but you can easily stop them taking their attitudes with them around the world in "support" of the national football team. Croatia would pretty quickly start restricting travel for known racists if they knew that their team was being hampered by them.

We managed it pretty effectively with our fans in the 80s and 90s... excluding South Africa from International Sport even had a surprisingly large effect on them getting rid of apartheid!

No Chamberlain tonight

Got sweden in the work sweepstakes, win win for me tonight

southstar wrote:No Chamberlain tonight

CARROLL HAT-TRICK

Reckon 2-0 to us tonight, although every previous guess at this year's Euro's have been completely tits up.

1-0 England.......and another boring game.

1-1 England.

If Ukraine get ANYTHING against France, I fear for England's ability to even get out of the group. Don't want to go into a final game with a Ukraine team knowing they can go through, playing at home too.

England to come out swinging and win 2-0.

Ukraine to beat France leaving us with a draw required to go through...

</blind optimism>

4-4-2 with old man Gerrard as the only creative player in the team...

think france/england will beat ukraine/sweden but not by much...

this weather is very 2012