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Evidence propping up that the sony distribution center was robbed and intentionally burnt down by organized crime

I read that, but then I read this.

oh snaps

The guy from PIAS sounds like hes trying to cover something up

First thing I thought was some kind of insurance ploy, but all the property was insured if I remember correctly.

British lawmakers blame flawed police tactics for riots

LONDON - A failure of police tactics during England's riots in August caused the unrest to escalate into the worst for a generation, British lawmakers said in a report published Monday.

The impression that police had lost control, particularly in London, encouraged rioters to go on a spree of looting and vandalism over four nights, said the report from the cross-party home affairs committee.

"In London and other areas, in contrast with the effectiveness of police responses in some towns and cities, there was a failure of police tactics," said opposition Labour party MP Keith Vaz, the committee chairman.

"This situation might have been avoided had police appreciated the magnitude of the task," he added.

Police have already faced criticism over their response to the initial outbreak of violence in the north London district of Tottenham on August 6, which was sparked by a fatal police shooting.

Officers appeared to pull back and the lawmakers said this initial reluctance to confront the rioters encouraged the spread of copycat unrest to other cities, causing widespread destruction and five deaths.

"The single most important reason why the disorder spread was the perception, relayed by television as well as new social media, that in some areas the police had lost control of the streets," the report said.

The report, "Policing Large-Scale Disorder: Lessons from the Disturbances of August 2011," also criticised police for a catalogue of other failures.

These included failing to quickly flood the streets with large numbers of officers, not giving businesses in affected areas early and consistent advice, and an inadequate system for loaning officers between forces.

Debate has raged about the underlying reasons for the unrest, but the committee admitted it could shed no new light on the issue.

"Unlike some events in the past, including riots in the 1980s, there does not seem to be any clear narrative, nor a clear element of protest or clear political objectives," it said.

A spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers said the report had identified issues that needed to be addressed by police reforms currently under discussion.

The disaffected youth and people facing economic oppression and all the rest of it needed a voice to air their views, they went the wrong way about it but probably the only way they can about it, sadly.

jaydot wrote: they went the wrong way about it but probably the only way they can about it

Spoken like a true member of our generation

*sigh*

Our generation never learned to think for themselves because from birth we have been blitzed with a barrage of scaremongering media, 'entertainment'/pacification systems and advertising telling us to consume....

Luckily some of us have switched off and are doing our own thing in a bid to create a positive future for our planet!

PS, fuck music as most of it is part of the distraction which leads our generation to care less about the issues that really effect us favouring ignorant bliss instead.

AllNightDayDream wrote:First thing I thought was some kind of insurance ploy, but all the property was insured if I remember correctly.

thats generally one of the required conditions for an insurance scam...

@futures: Word! There's plenty of positive ways to influence your community, even though most may be long and arduous, but that's part of the process.

@2day: Don't remember what I was thinking with that...

AllNightDayDream wrote:

jaydot wrote: they went the wrong way about it but probably the only way they can about it

Spoken like a true member of our generation

*sigh*

No we all have to write letters and mail them to our governments because that's the right thing to do and clearly would help the situation of our people a lot!

Especially here in Belgium !


Imho every system out there is set sail for fail except communism (in its purest/finest) oh I'm no cummi I just think there are other viable alternatives then our current shitsystem.

And the solution is to break shit, right?

Do you even know what communism "in its purest form" would look like? Probably my biggest gripe with all the doomsdayers is they offer no constructive criticism, no alternatives, they parade superficial buzzwords like "communism" and "socialism" (when we are already in many ways a socialist country). You think the system sucks? The "system" ALWAYS sucks. No matter how good things may get, there are always a crowd of people who take a conveniently easy position of "everything sucks and we can't do anything about it", and then some of them go out and do like these assholes did in the UK.

in what way is America a socialist country?

edit: i mean, yeh, there are certainly elements of socialism within your system, but to call it a 'socialist country' kind of is a misnomer

economically you partially regulate the free market with governmental controls, i.e. the bailout, but your govt doesn't own these private companies or redistribute the profits amongst its people

you barely have any system of government health care

the regulation of Wall Street is practically non-existent

Corporate control over the economy is seen as tantamount to the nature of your country in its most basic form

im not trying to say 'how can you claim the US is a socialist country, when CLEARLY the UK is socialist and you aren't' btw - this isn't an argument about the UK/US, FTR the UK is BARELY a socialist state anymore, i mean we have the NHS and the BBC but we privatised BT/British Gas/British Rail etc. and much more

to my eyes i can see how in the US you utilise elements of socialist economic policy, but its a far stretch to say you're 'basically a socialist state'...

I read in a history book today that free-market capitalism as an ideological theory for organising society was actually dismissed as a failure because of the Great Depression... Around the late 40's everyone forgot this then Wall Street started building political as well as financial muscle to get us where we are today.

So that's 2 massive fails in less than 100 years...

The UK also isn't very socialist anymore as Noam said, there are no proper public services except for the city councils, welfare benefits, the NHS and the BBC (though this is a separate, non-state corporation).

Thatcher fucked over the average person in the '80s, as rich people got richer everyone else got poorer and wages haven't changed since then. As an example, my mate's parents earnt £200 a week each in the early '80s, I can expect to earn the same now doing the same jobs but back then they could afford to buy a house, pay off a mortgage and cars and shopping and save up for things.. that just doesn't happen now.

I don't get why people didn't ask questions earlier when their purchasing power parity was shrinking to a 5th of its original size

Also, explaining the causes of the rioters behaviour does not excuse them but will lead to greater understanding to prevent it happening again. There are a lot of people who feel so alienated from other people that they really don't give a fuck anymore and this is the kind of attitude Thatcher ultimately encouraged: selfishness, whether for greed or survival.

Therein lies the next problem with the heavily left leaning, how they define "socialism". You have to abandon the idea that abstracts like socialism exist in absolute state, or "in its purest form". In the material world, nothing is pure and absolute, things exist in varying increments.

Thus socialism may be the leaning of government to own, operate, and guarantee different facets of society. In that respect, almost all western nations are socialist to a significant degree.

noam wrote:your govt doesn't own these private companies or redistribute the profits amongst its people

In fact, it does this all the time, and especially so since the recent crisis. I don't know specifically how you guys did it across the pond, but our bailout involved buying preferred stock, thus partially owning those companies, and there is a chance our taxpayers may actually see a profit from the transaction. The federal reserve, for all the shit it gets, regularly transfers any profits it makes through operations into the treasury.

All of our deposited bank loans are guaranteed by the government, which is by and large the biggest socialist safety net to crises like these. Medicare and Medicaid funds make up the majority of healthcare provided in this country, quite far from "barely". Local and state governments eat out of corporate hands to hand them subsidies and attract business to their areas, it's an epidemic. Nearly every large private project, be it sports stadiums, golf courses, oil pipelines, retail stores, etc. comes with a huge subsidy and hidden tax breaks that the government is more than eager to hand out. The large banks of wall street are terribly unregulated, and the entire scheme crumbled down because of it. BUT our government guarantees were a huge enabler to those practices, and what exacerbates and undoes those corrections in the market are huge government subsidies like the bailout that enables that behavior and maintains the status quo so the system can come crashing down again. Those are forms of socialism, and it's what is killing the taxpayer's coffers and eating at our local businesses. You think everything is so obvious, but it is anything but. This debacle can't be answered with simple, easy buzzwords like "socialism". Simply suggesting it implies you have a shallow understanding of how our economic foundations have brought us here.

But no, let's NOT take a serious look at our problems, let's NOT look for a practical solution, the clear answer is to go around breaking shit, destroying your communities and robbing your neighbors of their belongings. "It's the only way"

derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

AllNightDayDream wrote:Therein lies the next problem with the heavily left leaning, how they define "socialism". You have to abandon the idea that abstracts like socialism exist in absolute state, or "in its purest form". In the material world, nothing is pure and absolute, things exist in varying increments.

Thus socialism may be the leaning of government to own, operate, and guarantee different facets of society. In that respect, almost all western nations are socialist to a significant degree.

noam wrote:your govt doesn't own these private companies or redistribute the profits amongst its people

In fact, it does this all the time, and especially so since the recent crisis. I don't know specifically how you guys did it across the pond, but our bailout involved buying preferred stock, thus partially owning those companies, and there is a chance our taxpayers may actually see a profit from the transaction. The federal reserve, for all the shit it gets, regularly transfers any profits it makes through operations into the treasury.

All of our deposited bank loans are guaranteed by the government, which is by and large the biggest socialist safety net to crises like these. Medicare and Medicaid funds make up the majority of healthcare provided in this country, quite far from "barely". Local and state governments eat out of corporate hands to hand them subsidies and attract business to their areas, it's an epidemic. Nearly every large private project, be it sports stadiums, golf courses, oil pipelines, retail stores, etc. comes with a huge subsidy and hidden tax breaks that the government is more than eager to hand out. The large banks of wall street are terribly unregulated, and the entire scheme crumbled down because of it. BUT our government guarantees were a huge enabler to those practices, and what exacerbates and undoes those corrections in the market are huge government subsidies like the bailout that enables that behavior and maintains the status quo so the system can come crashing down again. Those are forms of socialism, and it's what is killing the taxpayer's coffers and eating at our local businesses. You think everything is so obvious, but it is anything but. This debacle can't be answered with simple, easy buzzwords like "socialism". Simply suggesting it implies you have a shallow understanding of how our economic foundations have brought us here.

But no, let's NOT take a serious look at our problems, let's NOT look for a practical solution, the clear answer is to go around breaking shit, destroying your communities and robbing your neighbors of their belongings. "It's the only way"

Interesting point about the cost of the bailouts being distributed through socialist systems... the capitalists go gambling on everyone's behalf then get them to pay for it to keep themselves afloat, win-win.

The UK govt. also bought out banks but they have either: 1) sold at a loss (i.e. Northern Rock), or 2) completely having any disregard for the fact they are part-owned by the majority of the population (such as is the case of the Royal Bank of Scotland Group [RBS] and Lloyds Banking Group) - most probably because the current Tory-led government is very happy with the status quo of letting the rich get away with everything.

why doesn't the government just run it's own bank like China does? I know the UK has the Bank of England but that's an independent corporation that has a monopoly on currency because of a deal done with a king way back in history....

futures_untold wrote:Luckily some of us have switched off and are doing our own thing in a bid to create a positive future for our planet!

hangin' with the goodie-goodies loungin' in paradise, fuck that shit, I wanna buy shares and shoot foxes