Dubstepforum.com

garethom wrote:I think something about international football that is forgotten is luck. The luck that you'll generate world class players, and that they'll all be playing at the same time.

At the moment, England have (IMO) two world class players, Rooney and Cole surrounded by a team of 9 or so average players (compared to the top internationals), whereas Spain have handfuls. However, compare that to their Euro 96 squad, where it was Spain that had 1 or 2 world class players.

Maybe the next generation will fulfill it, maybe not, I get the feeling it's coming into Germany's time now.

Think relying on luck is part of the problem.

Three years ago an official report concluded that coaching is the "golden thread" leading to international success, but new Uefa data shows that there are only 2,769 English coaches holding Uefa's B, A and Pro badges, its top qualifications. Spain has produced 23,995, Italy 29,420, Germany 34,970 and France 17,588.

There are 2.25 million players in England and only one Uefa-qualified coach for every 812 people playing the game. Spain, the World Cup favourites, have 408,134 players, giving a ratio of 1:17. In Italy, the world champions, the ratio is 1:48, in France it is 1:96, Germany 1:150 and even Greece, the Euro 2004 winners, have only 180,000 registered players for their 1,100 coaches, a ratio of 1:135.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... ge-england

Teams that are set up correctly can be better than the players they have available, that's the job of the manager.

Totally, I'm not saying it's ALL luck. The ways you can create world class players (national academies, etc.) and of course, how they're played, has the biggest impact, but the luck to have naturally gifted players all playing at the same time definitely comes into it.

could it not also be the case that loads of naturally gifted players in England are left behind through lack of proper coaching and guidance maybe?

noam wrote:could it not also be the case that loads of naturally gifted players in England are left behind through lack of proper coaching and guidance maybe?

Could well be that! I think my point, more generally was, that the ability of the national team starts well before they meet up 2 weeks before a tournament.

Everyone's known whats wrong with coaching kids in this country for years (full sized pitches, unecessary 11v11 games, defensive tactics from too young, lack of people getting into coaching),
The FA have only just started implementing changes 20 years behind the rest of Europe. Even if they get it right we won't see the benefits for a good 8 years..

if spain win this itll be in spite of their manager, not because of him. He doesnt look like he has a clue- bring on two wide men and no striker?

hutyluty wrote:if spain win this itll be in spite of their manager, not because of him. He doesnt look like he has a clue- bring on two wide men and no striker?

Pedro is awesome though, has been throughout the tournament

Fabregas must've shat his pants, couldn't be more lucky gettin that pen in, if it wasn't hittin post and in keeps was avin it. Unlucky Portugal, bravo Spain.

noam wrote:

hutyluty wrote:if spain win this itll be in spite of their manager, not because of him. He doesnt look like he has a clue- bring on two wide men and no striker?

Pedro is awesome though, has been throughout the tournament

yeah i meant to say, bringing on navas and pedro was a good idea but they had noone to pass to once they got through!

felt bad for old bruno- only an inch lower and itd have been in..

init

thats the difference though i spose, its like in Formula 1 where you can lose by 0.001 of a second

its so small its almost negligible but it makes the difference in the end

Looks like Ronaldo wanted to do a Drogba...backfired a bit

leyenda303 wrote:Looks like Ronaldo wanted to do a Drogba...backfired a bit

Having your best penalty taker in one of the spots that doesn't always get to take one looks fucking stupid. But it was Ronaldo so that's fine.

I remember in both the shoot outs against England he took the 5th and winning penalty, i always assumed he liked being the one that takes the glory kick to win it, guess it backfired this time,
In those tournaments they had Ricardo in goal who was a penalty specialist though...

ramos looks so much better with his hair cut.

good pen from him too

That was one of the dullest games yet.

Liebe Deutschland this evening!

man, what an uninspired game by spain. they don't seem hungry at all. portugal dind't create great oppurtunities either, but they would've deserved a win here. spain was better during extra time though.

the game tonight is probably gonna be nerve wrecking. if italy takes the lead, its gonna be really hard. defending pirlo properly will be key i guess. khedira is playing a strong tournament and schweinsteiger is at least solid defensively, so chances are good for our first win vs italy in a tournament.

southstar wrote:I remember in both the shoot outs against England he took the 5th and winning penalty, i always assumed he liked being the one that takes the glory kick to win it, guess it backfired this time,
In those tournaments they had Ricardo in goal who was a penalty specialist though...

Your first three penalty takers always take a penalty. The 4th penalty taker for the team going first will take a penalty unless one team has missed all three and one team has scored all three. The 4th penalty taker for the second team will not take a pen in the event the 1st team now has scored 3 and his team has yet to score or if his team has already scored 3 and the opposing team has only scored 1, or his team has scored 2 and the other team has yet to score.

Just as the 4th penalty taker for the second team is less likely to take a pen than the 4th taker for the first team the same is true of the 5th penalty taker, obviously. Ronaldo as the Portugese penalty taker was less likely to take a penalty than any other player named in the 5 for both teams. It's criminally stupid and arrogant irrespective of all previous results.

Now I get tl|dr but it's a testament to the dickhead of the man who happens to be the worlds second best player

scspkr99 wrote:Supporting Italy because Spain play dull football is original

got to admit the semi-finals are discrediting me

scspkr99 wrote:

scspkr99 wrote:Supporting Italy because Spain play dull football is original

got to admit the semi-finals are discrediting me

Italy were much better than I expected. I don't think I should be surprised though they have a tendency to start slowly and get better but I didn't see that performance in them.

Good to go into a final with both teams capable of good football though there's no guarantee either will deliver I can at least hope for it.

Italy have surprised me, didn't even have them getting out of their group.

Gotta say, on the whole, the tournament has really bored me. Can't wait for the start of the season.